Advocacy groups speak out
Editor’s note: This article was written with the collaboration and co-operation of UVic Pride, SOCC, the Women’s Collective and the NSU.
The students of UVic have, in the most recent election, voted down a referendum providing four on-campus advocacy groups with extra funding. While they were disappointed with the decision, the groups believe the reasons for opposing the increase were not founded on accurate premises.
A glance at the comments of the online Martlet article reveals a worrying group of observations about the organizations.
Advocacy groups are neither exclusive nor segregationist. Advocacy groups do not oppose groups of people, but rather groups of ideas. The counterpoint to the Women’s Center is not men, nor is the counter to the Native Student Union non-indigenous people. What the Students of Color Collective fight are not Caucasians, and the Pride collective does not wage war against heterosexuals. If you believe they do, test this theory.
Walk to the door of any of the advocacy groups and ask them what they do. Regardless of who you are, no one will say, “Get out of our way, we’re moving forward on our own time.” They’ll look you in the eye and say, “Here’s how you can help.”
Racism, patriarchy and homophobia are the opposition, and anyone who can bring something helpful to work against those forces is welcome. Working toward the reduction and eventual erasure of those systems is a valid and difficult goal, and volunteering is no longer enough for continued effectiveness.
Every year, students enter and exit these organizations, do their work and sit on their boards. Though they may do this for their entire university career, at the end of their degree the boards will be made up of completely different individuals.
Without paid staff positions given to students and ex-students alike, organizations have no memory — the solutions to the problems faced by these groups become lost or, at best, relegated to binders, e-mails and sticky notes with no guarantee that these solutions will be implemented, or even remembered, the next term.
I sympathize with the student body in some of the rationale of their decision. Financially, there are future worries. Supporting groups that do not cater to all students is something that perhaps not all students support. What must be noted is that all of these groups do, in fact, support the entire student body, albeit in an indirect manner.
Remember, you may not be queer, female, indigenous or of colour, but can you say the same for your friends? Your family? Your respected classmates? Opposing racism, sexism, homophobia and oppression in general means that people who are oppressed will always have a wide, broad and effective support system.
Opposing oppression doesn’t only benefit those directly oppressed. All systems are improved when groups are equalized and individuals can reach their full potential. In addition to being unfair, it damages the output of ideas. These groups remove the barriers that prevent students of marginalized groups from being the best they could possibly be.
Now, because all four groups oppose the same basic family of ideas, they often choose to work together. They do this for a few reasons. Solidarity is important, because we all have the responsibility to fight oppression.
Also, there’s no guarantee that every group is itself free of oppressive ideologies. Just because one group opposes one form of prejudice doesn’t mean that it won’t suffer from another. Working in close proximity to one another allows us to keep an eye on each other, to hold each other to the same scrutiny that the rest of the world should be held to.
All of this requires sacrifice. Volunteers sacrifice their time, talents and effort to promote positive changes in the world. It also costs money. Money for paid positions. Money for events. Money for the very basics of operation. Like all organizations, we pay for utilities for the use of the rooms that we occupy, and those costs keep going up. They are unavoidable.
Sacrificing money at a time like this is difficult to do. The four groups mentioned above, however, will try again.
What they ask for now is for the student body to sacrifice a little bit of itself in other ways. Come and learn about them. Come and find out how you can help and, while you do that, find out exactly what they do, how they do it and why they think that doing it is important.
Lend a hand. Lend a voice. Lend a pair of eyes and ears and, after you see and hear what they are, go tell your friends about it. And when the next referendum comes around, grab some more information before you vote it down.


34 Comments
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Wade April 2, 2009, 5:05 p.m.
I have always felt excluded by the advocacy groups. Particularly Pride and the Women's Centre.
Saying you're not exclusionary doesn't make it so. Until you embrace students from all backgrounds, you won't have our support.
Wade April 2, 2009, 5:05 p.m.
I have always felt excluded by the advocacy groups. Particularly Pride and the Women's Centre.
Saying you're not exclusionary doesn't make it so. Until you embrace students from all backgrounds, you won't have our support.
Christine April 2, 2009, 6:27 p.m.
I was told by SOCC that I wasn't allowed in their office because I'm White. This article isn't true at all.
Christine April 2, 2009, 6:27 p.m.
I was told by SOCC that I wasn't allowed in their office because I'm White. This article isn't true at all.
Pat April 2, 2009, 6:41 p.m.
How much legitimacy does a group have that can't fund raise money on their own? None. If the advocacy groups need more money to hire full time people, they should hold fundraisers and raise that money from all the supporters that have benefited, and continue to benefit from their great services and advocacy. right?
Pat April 2, 2009, 6:41 p.m.
How much legitimacy does a group have that can't fund raise money on their own? None. If the advocacy groups need more money to hire full time people, they should hold fundraisers and raise that money from all the supporters that have benefited, and continue to benefit from their great services and advocacy. right?
Jason Hunterman April 2, 2009, 6:44 p.m.
Students opposed the referendum increase because some of the advocacy groups were trying to get QUADRUPLE the funding they have now!! I don't care what your purpose is, any organization that asks for such dramatic increases in revenue needs to provide more justification for that funding than just a few carefully worded platitudes. If you want my vote, then you better start breaking down your yearly budget to demonstrate that we should be giving you quadruple the amount you get now.
Second, these advocacy groups are losing their legitimacy. How are Pride and the Women's Centre pursuing different causes? Gender and Identity are largely parallel issues and I don't see why they should be handled through two different organizations.
Finally, it is absolutely ridiculous that these advocacy groups think they are oppressed. These people get a quarter of the votes on the UVSS board, they get access to money no other student or special interest group on campus gets and they live in a society nearly completely tolerant of the identity they claim causes their oppression. Can anyone honestly tell me university women, who comprise three quarters of the students on campus, are an oppressed class on campus?! Give me a break. Call me sexist, ignorant etc, but don't bullshit me that you are still oppressed. If we're going to talk about oppression, why don't we talk about the blatant hate we see pushed by advocacy groups against those they disagree with? How come its not oppression to try to censor Pro Life students on campus?! How is it not oppression that its ok for the Martlet to publish a highly offensive article against the Pope but it's not ok for a similarly offensive things about the Islamic religion to be printed?
The hypocrisy of these groups is astounding. If they want my money, they are going to need a perspective shift along with some accountability so that we aren't stuck footing the bill for unaccounted spending. I can already anticipate the reaction from these groups when they read my post. They'll smugly dismiss me as ignorant and not worth listening to, and by doing so, they'll prove my point precisely
Jason Hunterman April 2, 2009, 6:44 p.m.
Students opposed the referendum increase because some of the advocacy groups were trying to get QUADRUPLE the funding they have now!! I don't care what your purpose is, any organization that asks for such dramatic increases in revenue needs to provide more justification for that funding than just a few carefully worded platitudes. If you want my vote, then you better start breaking down your yearly budget to demonstrate that we should be giving you quadruple the amount you get now.
Second, these advocacy groups are losing their legitimacy. How are Pride and the Women's Centre pursuing different causes? Gender and Identity are largely parallel issues and I don't see why they should be handled through two different organizations.
Finally, it is absolutely ridiculous that these advocacy groups think they are oppressed. These people get a quarter of the votes on the UVSS board, they get access to money no other student or special interest group on campus gets and they live in a society nearly completely tolerant of the identity they claim causes their oppression. Can anyone honestly tell me university women, who comprise three quarters of the students on campus, are an oppressed class on campus?! Give me a break. Call me sexist, ignorant etc, but don't bullshit me that you are still oppressed. If we're going to talk about oppression, why don't we talk about the blatant hate we see pushed by advocacy groups against those they disagree with? How come its not oppression to try to censor Pro Life students on campus?! How is it not oppression that its ok for the Martlet to publish a highly offensive article against the Pope but it's not ok for a similarly offensive things about the Islamic religion to be printed?
The hypocrisy of these groups is astounding. If they want my money, they are going to need a perspective shift along with some accountability so that we aren't stuck footing the bill for unaccounted spending. I can already anticipate the reaction from these groups when they read my post. They'll smugly dismiss me as ignorant and not worth listening to, and by doing so, they'll prove my point precisely
Kevin April 2, 2009, 9:37 p.m.
Great comment Jason, I completely agree with all your points! It's why I voted against all the fee increases.
Kevin April 2, 2009, 9:37 p.m.
Great comment Jason, I completely agree with all your points! It's why I voted against all the fee increases.
Alex April 2, 2009, 9:42 p.m.
The Woman's Centre is a ridiculous waste of money. The fact that male students are forced to pay into it, but aren't allowed to step foot into their office astounds me. Even as a woman I feel completely uncomfortable and out of place there. The office is always a mess and they don't seem to really do anything. I think the advocacy groups should have to hold a referendum every few years in order to continue to receive the funding they already have. That way, students can hold them accountable.
Alex April 2, 2009, 9:42 p.m.
The Woman's Centre is a ridiculous waste of money. The fact that male students are forced to pay into it, but aren't allowed to step foot into their office astounds me. Even as a woman I feel completely uncomfortable and out of place there. The office is always a mess and they don't seem to really do anything. I think the advocacy groups should have to hold a referendum every few years in order to continue to receive the funding they already have. That way, students can hold them accountable.
Erin April 2, 2009, 10:14 p.m.
Polatta - You must really hate advocacy groups. But you cared enough to spell Womyn with a Y. Which makes me wonder ... could you actually be a member of the Women's Center, posing as a hater of advocacy groups, in an attempt to prove that they really do face discrimination? Interesting strategy Polatta, but I'm on to you.
Erin April 2, 2009, 10:14 p.m.
Polatta - You must really hate advocacy groups. But you cared enough to spell Womyn with a Y. Which makes me wonder ... could you actually be a member of the Women's Center, posing as a hater of advocacy groups, in an attempt to prove that they really do face discrimination? Interesting strategy Polatta, but I'm on to you.
Kailey April 3, 2009, 12:21 p.m.
Christine..that's why it says
Walk to the door of any of the advocacy groupsnot go inside :PBut in all seriousness part of what they were asking for is equal funding. The fact that meant quadruple for some groups is only because they have so much less funding than some of the other groups.
It seems very strange that they all recieve different levels of funding.
While I agree with many of the points that have been made, especially about the Women's Centre not letting men in (I think SOCC may have recently changed its policy but I'm not sure, you'd have to ask them) and similarities between the causes, I think the groups should still recieve the same funding, especially if they are to work together. It's hard to work equally with someone who's budget is triple yours.
Also, while I can't say I understand the need for a
safe spacefor women on campus, I can respect that some people may truly feel that. I would also respect any men who truly felt they need a safe space. But I don't think it's appropriate to have an entire centre that doesn't allow men in. How does that do anything but create a distinct opposition?I think it's important that people are sharing why they voted
nofor the funding (particularly the people who aren't just yelling OPRESSION DOESN'T EXIST! because that's a little silly). But feeling excluded is a valid point, and maybe once advocacy groups hear the points from students they can reach out into the community better, and everyone can come to a better level of understanding, the groups as to why students don't want to fund them, and students as to why they want/need this funding.Kailey April 3, 2009, 12:21 p.m.
Christine..that's why it says
Walk to the door of any of the advocacy groupsnot go inside :PBut in all seriousness part of what they were asking for is equal funding. The fact that meant quadruple for some groups is only because they have so much less funding than some of the other groups.
It seems very strange that they all recieve different levels of funding.
While I agree with many of the points that have been made, especially about the Women's Centre not letting men in (I think SOCC may have recently changed its policy but I'm not sure, you'd have to ask them) and similarities between the causes, I think the groups should still recieve the same funding, especially if they are to work together. It's hard to work equally with someone who's budget is triple yours.
Also, while I can't say I understand the need for a
safe spacefor women on campus, I can respect that some people may truly feel that. I would also respect any men who truly felt they need a safe space. But I don't think it's appropriate to have an entire centre that doesn't allow men in. How does that do anything but create a distinct opposition?I think it's important that people are sharing why they voted
nofor the funding (particularly the people who aren't just yelling OPRESSION DOESN'T EXIST! because that's a little silly). But feeling excluded is a valid point, and maybe once advocacy groups hear the points from students they can reach out into the community better, and everyone can come to a better level of understanding, the groups as to why students don't want to fund them, and students as to why they want/need this funding.David April 3, 2009, 2:50 p.m.
There are three problems I see with advocacy groups, which may be a reason students were not supportive of their case in the last referendum:
The advocacy groups do not serve all of their constitutents well, nor do they try to. The Women's Centre, for example, does not attempt to serve all women. I quote another article from this week's Martlet: Rebecca Taylor, a former co-ordinator for the Women’s Centre … noted the importance of the centre’s mission (to be a strong, radical, feminist voice on campus), and its vision: to create social change through political action, education and support of UVic women students.
How many women on campus feel adequately spoken for by a radical feminist voice? Apparently, not many. Quoting a Feb. 25 Martlet article by Gemma Karstens-Smith:Sinead Charbonneau, communications outreach co-ordinator at the Women’s Centre, estimates that 15 members of the Women’s Collective attend meetings regularly.` Likewise, I've heard that SOCC is not very welcoming of Asian students. I have no idea whether this is actually true or not; I hope it is not. But nonetheless this perception exists, which means SOCC is not seen to be representing all students of colour. It's tough to agree with funding groups that aren't seen as being representitive of the constitutents they claim to represent.The advocacy groups have not made, in my opinion, a convincing case why they should be funded by all students. As a straight, white, fully-able male, I don't really feel represented by any of the advocacy groups. I might be willing to part with some change to fund their causes, but I have yet to be convinced why, as a non-user, I should fund their services. We also fund exclusive clubs through our UVSS fees, but to a lesser extent. For example, the Jewish Students' Association gets funding from the UVSS to provide services and hold events for Jewish students. But above this nominal amount of funding available to any club, they need to come up with their own source of funding for the Passover dinners and bagel lunches they put on. I have no doubt that a Native feast, as the Feb. 25 Martlet article describes the feasts as something a lot of students, presumably Native,
need.And I have no doubt that Native feasts help Native students feel more at home on campus, similar to Jewish students having a bagel lunch or Passover dinner together. But it's unclear why I should pay far more into services for Native students than I do for services to Jewish students or Muslim students. I could be convinced, but no one's made a convincing case in my mind yet.The advocacy groups seem to have a habit of blaming non-support of their causes on people's ignorance. Cam's article above is a case-in-point. His last sentence reads,
And when the next referendum comes around, grab some more information before you vote it down.In other words, voters who voted against funding increases were uneducated and ignorant. Judging from some of the responses in this post, however, it seems to me like people are actually thinking about these issues and are not voting blindly. Likewise, in the Women's Centre article this week, anyone who thinks equality has been achieved must be a priviledged, white male: `Some privileged folks, often those who are from the dominant social class, such as white men or those raised in class privilege, seem to think that equality has been achieved. However, women still face systemic patterns of discrimination, sexualized violence and objectification as well as the the silencing of women’s voices and experiences,” Taylor said. I have no problem with advocacy groups thinking voters are wrong, even though i personally disagree. I have no problem with Rebecca Taylor arguing that equality of the sexes has not been achieved, even though i think in the UVic environment there is equality of the sexes. But it bugs me when people argue I must be ignorant for holding the views I do, or dismiss my views as unimportant because I happen to be a priviledged, white male. Are the thoughts of priviledged white males dismissed as ignorant simply because they come out of a priviledged white male? To me, that's oppressive, racist and sexist — everything these groups claim they want to eliminate.David April 3, 2009, 2:50 p.m.
There are three problems I see with advocacy groups, which may be a reason students were not supportive of their case in the last referendum:
The advocacy groups do not serve all of their constitutents well, nor do they try to. The Women's Centre, for example, does not attempt to serve all women. I quote another article from this week's Martlet: Rebecca Taylor, a former co-ordinator for the Women’s Centre … noted the importance of the centre’s mission (to be a strong, radical, feminist voice on campus), and its vision: to create social change through political action, education and support of UVic women students.
How many women on campus feel adequately spoken for by a radical feminist voice? Apparently, not many. Quoting a Feb. 25 Martlet article by Gemma Karstens-Smith:Sinead Charbonneau, communications outreach co-ordinator at the Women’s Centre, estimates that 15 members of the Women’s Collective attend meetings regularly.` Likewise, I've heard that SOCC is not very welcoming of Asian students. I have no idea whether this is actually true or not; I hope it is not. But nonetheless this perception exists, which means SOCC is not seen to be representing all students of colour. It's tough to agree with funding groups that aren't seen as being representitive of the constitutents they claim to represent.The advocacy groups have not made, in my opinion, a convincing case why they should be funded by all students. As a straight, white, fully-able male, I don't really feel represented by any of the advocacy groups. I might be willing to part with some change to fund their causes, but I have yet to be convinced why, as a non-user, I should fund their services. We also fund exclusive clubs through our UVSS fees, but to a lesser extent. For example, the Jewish Students' Association gets funding from the UVSS to provide services and hold events for Jewish students. But above this nominal amount of funding available to any club, they need to come up with their own source of funding for the Passover dinners and bagel lunches they put on. I have no doubt that a Native feast, as the Feb. 25 Martlet article describes the feasts as something a lot of students, presumably Native,
need.And I have no doubt that Native feasts help Native students feel more at home on campus, similar to Jewish students having a bagel lunch or Passover dinner together. But it's unclear why I should pay far more into services for Native students than I do for services to Jewish students or Muslim students. I could be convinced, but no one's made a convincing case in my mind yet.The advocacy groups seem to have a habit of blaming non-support of their causes on people's ignorance. Cam's article above is a case-in-point. His last sentence reads,
And when the next referendum comes around, grab some more information before you vote it down.In other words, voters who voted against funding increases were uneducated and ignorant. Judging from some of the responses in this post, however, it seems to me like people are actually thinking about these issues and are not voting blindly. Likewise, in the Women's Centre article this week, anyone who thinks equality has been achieved must be a priviledged, white male: `Some privileged folks, often those who are from the dominant social class, such as white men or those raised in class privilege, seem to think that equality has been achieved. However, women still face systemic patterns of discrimination, sexualized violence and objectification as well as the the silencing of women’s voices and experiences,” Taylor said. I have no problem with advocacy groups thinking voters are wrong, even though i personally disagree. I have no problem with Rebecca Taylor arguing that equality of the sexes has not been achieved, even though i think in the UVic environment there is equality of the sexes. But it bugs me when people argue I must be ignorant for holding the views I do, or dismiss my views as unimportant because I happen to be a priviledged, white male. Are the thoughts of priviledged white males dismissed as ignorant simply because they come out of a priviledged white male? To me, that's oppressive, racist and sexist — everything these groups claim they want to eliminate.Jason Hunterman April 3, 2009, 4:56 p.m.
David has described it perfectly. People have repeated his second argument over and over again, and advocacy groups have smugly dismissed these concerns more than to answer for them.
Whenever someone criticizes these advocacy groups, we are outright dismissed as ignorant or clouded by some imaginary veil of oppression. This is a very intellectually dishonest way to respond to criticism. If I was a government funding anti-oppression initiatives, I would still expect taxpayer money to be accountably used. Being part of an organization with a noble goal does not suddenly exempt you from reasonable expectations of competency and accountability.
I think the Women's Centre is the advocacy group going through the biggest crisis of legitimacy. It's an outdated institution that really hasn't been able to respond to its aging second wave feminist roots. I think this can be represented by the fact that I have spoke to dozens upon dozens of women on campus about the Women's Centre, and I haven't met a single person who said they felt comfortable there, and for good reason. When the goals of your organization are to act as a
radical voicefor women, are you really representing the majority view of feminism, or an irrelevant minority of students? Whatever happened to the mainstream, progressive Liberal Feminism that led to so many of the achievements for women?! It appears as if our Women Centre has seriously alienated moderate and Liberal feminists, women who, I should remind them, comprise of the vast majority of women students on campus. These are the same women who voted to deny extra funding for your organization--they too are fed up with this increasingly irrelevant organization.Also, besides the odd event the women's centre organizes, I find it funny the Women's Centre focuses all its attention on
positive space.This is essentially a thinly veiled mention to the fact that their lounge exists as an exclusive place for a tiny minority of students to just lounge around and do nothing. This space is being wasted, and quite frankly, Pride, which has an office the size of a closet, is much more deserving of this space.Feminism as a movement is a pretty fractured group. In fact, it's almost dishonest at this point to claim any modern political issue in Canada on gender can take clear feminist sides (in other countries like Afghanistan where men can legally rape their wives, then yes, the movement can unite, but this is not the case in Canada). For example, you have pro choice feminists claiming that not supporting choice on abortion is akin to HATE SPEECH while people like Sarah Palin pride in their supposed
feminism.You have pro sex feminists embracing heterosexual relationships, while you have Mackinnon-esque radicals claiming sex with men is an inherently violent act. It's ridiculous to think that modern feminism can achiece consensus on anything in Canada when there are such deep, fundamental fractures within the movement.But for me, the biggest injustice of these groups is not the funding they receive. It's their board representation. It's completely, 100%, unjustifiable. Were running a fucking student society that approves minutes, manages events, and works to make campus life exciting. Why should they get entrenched 5 full votes on the board? If you look at nearly every bloody controversy at UVic, almost every one of them were spearheaded by advocacy groups. Elected board members, knowing they must face the wrath of the electorate, are forced to be reasonable.
So where do we go from here? Well my opinion is that we should leave Access alone, they have demonstrated they are effective. We need to reform SOCC and I'm not sure how to deal with the NSU or Pride. Finally, we should scrap the Women's Centre and ensure gender equality by requiring a quota of self identified men and women on the board (see, I am no ignorant sexist--I agree that gender is not bound to biological sex). That way, the unique perspective of both genders are preserved within the realms of student wide political legitimacy.
Jason Hunterman April 3, 2009, 4:56 p.m.
David has described it perfectly. People have repeated his second argument over and over again, and advocacy groups have smugly dismissed these concerns more than to answer for them.
Whenever someone criticizes these advocacy groups, we are outright dismissed as ignorant or clouded by some imaginary veil of oppression. This is a very intellectually dishonest way to respond to criticism. If I was a government funding anti-oppression initiatives, I would still expect taxpayer money to be accountably used. Being part of an organization with a noble goal does not suddenly exempt you from reasonable expectations of competency and accountability.
I think the Women's Centre is the advocacy group going through the biggest crisis of legitimacy. It's an outdated institution that really hasn't been able to respond to its aging second wave feminist roots. I think this can be represented by the fact that I have spoke to dozens upon dozens of women on campus about the Women's Centre, and I haven't met a single person who said they felt comfortable there, and for good reason. When the goals of your organization are to act as a
radical voicefor women, are you really representing the majority view of feminism, or an irrelevant minority of students? Whatever happened to the mainstream, progressive Liberal Feminism that led to so many of the achievements for women?! It appears as if our Women Centre has seriously alienated moderate and Liberal feminists, women who, I should remind them, comprise of the vast majority of women students on campus. These are the same women who voted to deny extra funding for your organization--they too are fed up with this increasingly irrelevant organization.Also, besides the odd event the women's centre organizes, I find it funny the Women's Centre focuses all its attention on
positive space.This is essentially a thinly veiled mention to the fact that their lounge exists as an exclusive place for a tiny minority of students to just lounge around and do nothing. This space is being wasted, and quite frankly, Pride, which has an office the size of a closet, is much more deserving of this space.Feminism as a movement is a pretty fractured group. In fact, it's almost dishonest at this point to claim any modern political issue in Canada on gender can take clear feminist sides (in other countries like Afghanistan where men can legally rape their wives, then yes, the movement can unite, but this is not the case in Canada). For example, you have pro choice feminists claiming that not supporting choice on abortion is akin to HATE SPEECH while people like Sarah Palin pride in their supposed
feminism.You have pro sex feminists embracing heterosexual relationships, while you have Mackinnon-esque radicals claiming sex with men is an inherently violent act. It's ridiculous to think that modern feminism can achiece consensus on anything in Canada when there are such deep, fundamental fractures within the movement.But for me, the biggest injustice of these groups is not the funding they receive. It's their board representation. It's completely, 100%, unjustifiable. Were running a fucking student society that approves minutes, manages events, and works to make campus life exciting. Why should they get entrenched 5 full votes on the board? If you look at nearly every bloody controversy at UVic, almost every one of them were spearheaded by advocacy groups. Elected board members, knowing they must face the wrath of the electorate, are forced to be reasonable.
So where do we go from here? Well my opinion is that we should leave Access alone, they have demonstrated they are effective. We need to reform SOCC and I'm not sure how to deal with the NSU or Pride. Finally, we should scrap the Women's Centre and ensure gender equality by requiring a quota of self identified men and women on the board (see, I am no ignorant sexist--I agree that gender is not bound to biological sex). That way, the unique perspective of both genders are preserved within the realms of student wide political legitimacy.
Alex April 3, 2009, 6:10 p.m.
I have an idea. Why don't we just make the groups that get funding from student fees come back to the students every 4 years and have to ask students to continue supporting them financially through a referendum. That way the groups that don't do a good job would loose their funding, and the groups that do a good job would continue to get funding, and get opportunities to increase their funding.
Queens University already does this. Why don't we?
Alex April 3, 2009, 6:10 p.m.
I have an idea. Why don't we just make the groups that get funding from student fees come back to the students every 4 years and have to ask students to continue supporting them financially through a referendum. That way the groups that don't do a good job would loose their funding, and the groups that do a good job would continue to get funding, and get opportunities to increase their funding.
Queens University already does this. Why don't we?
Student April 6, 2009, 2:51 a.m.
Let's face it:
These advocacy groups are a waste of space.
Student April 6, 2009, 2:51 a.m.
Let's face it:
These advocacy groups are a waste of space.
John April 7, 2009, 1:17 a.m.
Cam's statement that the advocacy groups
are neither exclusive nor segregationistis simply false. The Woman's Center's female only policy is, by definition, segregationist. Regardless of how committed I may be to feminism I am unwelcome in the Woman's Center. This brings into question Cam's claim that the advocacy groupsdo not oppose groups of people, but rather groups of ideas. I am excluded from entry into to Woman's Center because I am male and not because of any groups of ideas I hold. Whether or not this exclusion and segregation is justified is a separate issue. If Cam wants to defend the segregationist and exclusionary nature of advocacy groups such as the Woman's Center then he should but simply denying that this exclusion and segregation is taking place is deceptive and ignorant.John April 7, 2009, 1:17 a.m.
Cam's statement that the advocacy groups
are neither exclusive nor segregationistis simply false. The Woman's Center's female only policy is, by definition, segregationist. Regardless of how committed I may be to feminism I am unwelcome in the Woman's Center. This brings into question Cam's claim that the advocacy groupsdo not oppose groups of people, but rather groups of ideas. I am excluded from entry into to Woman's Center because I am male and not because of any groups of ideas I hold. Whether or not this exclusion and segregation is justified is a separate issue. If Cam wants to defend the segregationist and exclusionary nature of advocacy groups such as the Woman's Center then he should but simply denying that this exclusion and segregation is taking place is deceptive and ignorant.Allan April 7, 2009, 8:35 p.m.
I agree strongly that any form of exclusion on the part of the advocacy groups is alarming. In fact, I am very sad that the advocacy groups have decided to work together like this, as there are definately issues of exclusion with some of the groups, and this is reflecting poorly on all of them. While most people's concerns with the Women's Centre's sexist policies and possible racist policies within SOCC are totally valid, Pride has been trying to reach out and include more and more people for the last year. While quadrupled funding may have been ambitious, Pride in my opinion definitly deserves at least as much funding as the Women's Centre or SOCC, and was unfairly grouped with these other troubled groups.
Allan April 7, 2009, 8:35 p.m.
I agree strongly that any form of exclusion on the part of the advocacy groups is alarming. In fact, I am very sad that the advocacy groups have decided to work together like this, as there are definately issues of exclusion with some of the groups, and this is reflecting poorly on all of them. While most people's concerns with the Women's Centre's sexist policies and possible racist policies within SOCC are totally valid, Pride has been trying to reach out and include more and more people for the last year. While quadrupled funding may have been ambitious, Pride in my opinion definitly deserves at least as much funding as the Women's Centre or SOCC, and was unfairly grouped with these other troubled groups.
Sam April 8, 2009, 7:42 p.m.
I think the women's center and other advocacy groups need to exist. Just because 75% of UVic's students are female does not mean women have achieved
equality. Women are more likely to develop eating disorders, be single parents, experience an abusive partner and sexual assault. One in three women experience sexual assault, the most age for women to assaulted between 16-25. As for the Native Student building, the reason we should pay more fees for Indigenous students is because our University is located on Indigenous land that was stolen.Sam April 8, 2009, 7:42 p.m.
I think the women's center and other advocacy groups need to exist. Just because 75% of UVic's students are female does not mean women have achieved
equality. Women are more likely to develop eating disorders, be single parents, experience an abusive partner and sexual assault. One in three women experience sexual assault, the most age for women to assaulted between 16-25. As for the Native Student building, the reason we should pay more fees for Indigenous students is because our University is located on Indigenous land that was stolen.Mike April 9, 2009, 8:21 p.m.
I voted no the advocacy group referendum, and I voted it on two grounds.
1) Imagine for a second that you went to your boss asking for a 400% raise and were not able to present a valid reason for why you deserve it. Do you think your boss would give it to you?
This was more or less the case with this referendum. The four groups were asking for large-scale raises in student fees, but really weren't evident in showing the tangible effects their work has on the campus, let alone the community. If I am not given a reasonable explanation of: a) why you deserve this extra money, and b) what you do with the money you have and why that isn't good enough, and c) what you will do with this extra money, then I see no rationale behind approving a carte blanche for even more money going to these groups with no explanation of what it will achieve.
2) David already touched on this, but what is the threshold? Why is it I must pay money to a Natives group, or a Women's group, or a LGBT group, but not a Jewish group or a Muslim group? I personally do not fall under any of these demographics, but it seems so arbitrary that my funds go to some but not others, and the groups that have received my funding have made no convincing case for this. Sure, discrimination against these groups exist, but is there not anti-Semitism and Islamophobia prevalent in our society as well? This is a question that remains unanswered, and with some groups not receiving funding while others do, I just can't rationalize givingthe latter MORE funding.
Mike April 9, 2009, 8:21 p.m.
I voted no the advocacy group referendum, and I voted it on two grounds.
1) Imagine for a second that you went to your boss asking for a 400% raise and were not able to present a valid reason for why you deserve it. Do you think your boss would give it to you?
This was more or less the case with this referendum. The four groups were asking for large-scale raises in student fees, but really weren't evident in showing the tangible effects their work has on the campus, let alone the community. If I am not given a reasonable explanation of: a) why you deserve this extra money, and b) what you do with the money you have and why that isn't good enough, and c) what you will do with this extra money, then I see no rationale behind approving a carte blanche for even more money going to these groups with no explanation of what it will achieve.
2) David already touched on this, but what is the threshold? Why is it I must pay money to a Natives group, or a Women's group, or a LGBT group, but not a Jewish group or a Muslim group? I personally do not fall under any of these demographics, but it seems so arbitrary that my funds go to some but not others, and the groups that have received my funding have made no convincing case for this. Sure, discrimination against these groups exist, but is there not anti-Semitism and Islamophobia prevalent in our society as well? This is a question that remains unanswered, and with some groups not receiving funding while others do, I just can't rationalize givingthe latter MORE funding.
Jason April 12, 2009, 6:45 p.m.
As much as people will try to convince you women are not
equal,their arguments are misleading. Since the 1970's when women reached equality, women have consistently outperformed men in high school. That alone shows there is something very wrong going on with education efforts to further help women students.Men are treated more harshly in the criminal justice system in nearly every aspect of the system, from their arrest rates, to chances of conviction, to the length of time they serve in prison. If you don't believe me, look it up.
The sexual assault statistics are misleading. The one in four stat about campus rapes is BS and took an extremely liberal interpretation of
rape.Having sex and then later regretting doing so is notrape.This is what those studies did in order to get such an inflated number. Only about 3% of thoserapecases were what we imagine to be rape, that is, forced sex against someone's will. There is a big difference between having sex with a gun to your head, and having sex you regret. The later may be emotionally distressing, but it is not rape.The current UVSS board has a majority of its executives as women. This has held for quite a few years now. Women make up a majority of the students on campus by a large margin. Is it really fair to say that we need a women's rep with full voting power?
But ultimately the fact I'm trying to hammer home is that it is counterproductive for both sides of the sex debate to play victims. Sex discrimination has no identity and exists against both men and women. As a student society, we would do much better to address it with a gender neutral gender equality centre than to branch it off into competing causes.
Jason April 12, 2009, 6:45 p.m.
As much as people will try to convince you women are not
equal,their arguments are misleading. Since the 1970's when women reached equality, women have consistently outperformed men in high school. That alone shows there is something very wrong going on with education efforts to further help women students.Men are treated more harshly in the criminal justice system in nearly every aspect of the system, from their arrest rates, to chances of conviction, to the length of time they serve in prison. If you don't believe me, look it up.
The sexual assault statistics are misleading. The one in four stat about campus rapes is BS and took an extremely liberal interpretation of
rape.Having sex and then later regretting doing so is notrape.This is what those studies did in order to get such an inflated number. Only about 3% of thoserapecases were what we imagine to be rape, that is, forced sex against someone's will. There is a big difference between having sex with a gun to your head, and having sex you regret. The later may be emotionally distressing, but it is not rape.The current UVSS board has a majority of its executives as women. This has held for quite a few years now. Women make up a majority of the students on campus by a large margin. Is it really fair to say that we need a women's rep with full voting power?
But ultimately the fact I'm trying to hammer home is that it is counterproductive for both sides of the sex debate to play victims. Sex discrimination has no identity and exists against both men and women. As a student society, we would do much better to address it with a gender neutral gender equality centre than to branch it off into competing causes.