Israeli terrorists pummel Palestine
I’m writing this in case you’ve been more concerned with Kanye West’s latest music video, or what country Brangelina are going to adopt their next child from, or you’ve been walking around like a zombie with your iPod set at the loudest volume.
While you haven’t been paying attention, over 824 Palestinians have died and over 3,350 have been injured — and 48% of these casualties are women and children.
The latest figures at the time of writing this article are 257 children dead, and 1,080 wounded. You might not be moved by this.
Atrocities take place all over the world every day, but examine the attention they get.
What happens when there is a train or an airplane crash? The report reads the following: 10 Americans, 4 French, 7 English and several others. Who are those others? It doesn’t matter. The others are lucky we even said “several others.”
Now Gaza is home of the latest genocide. Let’s not talk about it though — they are Palestinians. They are terrorists. They like to hide behind women and children. This whole thing is their fault. They started it. We signed a truce and they broke it, and if it wasn’t for Hamas...
I don’t care who did what. I don’t care who started it, or who signed what treaty. And I definitely could not care any less who is an Israeli and who is a Palestinian. All I see are two groups of people: the oppressors and the oppressed.
What’s worse, is that the Israeli commanders are actually discussing their strategy with western media, which involves targeting innocent civilians.
According to an article published recently in the Toronto Star, an Israeli commander said that putting this pressure on civilians will cause the civilians to turn against Hamas.
So now comes the use of the most disgusting euphemism ever created in the English language: collateral damage.
What does that mean? Why don’t they call it what it truly is — we will go in there and massacre some women and children and a few more civilians, and hopefully this way they will turn against their own government.
You mean to tell me that the Palestinians actually elected Hamas in a democratic election, and you want the people to turn against them? Oh, I get it. You only approve democracy if it puts up a puppet government to serve your goals.
And one more thing, doesn’t the UN Charter Article 51 have a point in there somewhere that guarantees a peoples’ right to resist occupation and colonization? But you keep calling them terrorists.
According to the UN, they certainly don’t seem to be. So what defines a terrorist then — does killing 257 children and wounding 1,080 classify?
I thought we’re all supposed to be brothers and sisters in humanity. These are your and my families. If you haven’t heard, there is genocide in Gaza happening right now, and the international community remains indifferent while body parts keep flying.
The Israeli Defence Force destroyed a school used as a shelter by women and children, and has the audacity to claim they had no idea, or that Hamas was hiding behind these innocent people.
Of course, the assumption by the IDF is that you’re all sleep-walking and stupid.
Can you blame them? Not really. Chances are, you’ll go back to scrolling through your iPod and raise the volume a little more.
68 Comments
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Truth Seeker Jan. 15, 2009, 9:13 p.m.
Thats a nice way of putting it. Maybe people will wake up? Not a chance.
If I look at what century we are living in, with all this science and technology, the comfort of our homes, the easy lifestyle, how does one country besiege an entire city, then bomb poor civilians with F16 who can barely find enough food for themselves, let alone their families. And the whole world looks around as if nothing has happened.
Something has happened: it is called the genocide of this decade. Previously Iraq had won that title.
The other ironic piece of information is this happens during the worst financial crysis the world has seen in a long time.
Truth Seeker Jan. 15, 2009, 9:13 p.m.
Thats a nice way of putting it. Maybe people will wake up? Not a chance.
If I look at what century we are living in, with all this science and technology, the comfort of our homes, the easy lifestyle, how does one country besiege an entire city, then bomb poor civilians with F16 who can barely find enough food for themselves, let alone their families. And the whole world looks around as if nothing has happened.
Something has happened: it is called the genocide of this decade. Previously Iraq had won that title.
The other ironic piece of information is this happens during the worst financial crysis the world has seen in a long time.
Open Your Eyes Jan. 15, 2009, 11:25 p.m.
Updates: Palestinian deaths so far: 1,054 Palestinian injuries so far: 4,860
And the IDF has admitted that there were no Hamas members shooting at them from the UN school. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054009.html
Who are the terrorists?
Open Your Eyes Jan. 15, 2009, 11:25 p.m.
Updates: Palestinian deaths so far: 1,054 Palestinian injuries so far: 4,860
And the IDF has admitted that there were no Hamas members shooting at them from the UN school. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054009.html
Who are the terrorists?
Michael(UK) Jan. 16, 2009, 4:16 a.m.
The USA's own definition of terrorism describes Israel's actions exactly.
http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/terror/terror.pdf
(d) the term “terrorism” means an activity that — (i) involves a violent act or an act dangerous to human life, property, or infrastructure; and (ii) appears to be intended — (A) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (B) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (C) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, kidnapping, or hostage-taking.
Michael(UK) Jan. 16, 2009, 4:16 a.m.
The USA's own definition of terrorism describes Israel's actions exactly.
http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/terror/terror.pdf
(d) the term “terrorism” means an activity that — (i) involves a violent act or an act dangerous to human life, property, or infrastructure; and (ii) appears to be intended — (A) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (B) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (C) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, kidnapping, or hostage-taking.
Mike Jan. 16, 2009, 2:34 p.m.
Mohamed Ghilan is not treating both sides equally here. There is no mention of the rockets that Hamas sends over to Isreal. And I'm sure the UN charter does not cover governments whose aims are to destroy another state. I guess if Hitler was alive today, we should just let him say and do whatever he wants, as long as he doesn't attack other countries (which he eventually does, and Hamas eventually did as well). I find it amusing that Ghilan mentions that we are too busy in the west to even care about this conflict. It is his western ignorance of the problems Isreal faced before this recent conflict that is the most appalling. By the way, if a Canadian city was getting rockets fired at it, I would support us going in to remove the problem. And no, I am not Jewish.
Mike Jan. 16, 2009, 2:34 p.m.
Mohamed Ghilan is not treating both sides equally here. There is no mention of the rockets that Hamas sends over to Isreal. And I'm sure the UN charter does not cover governments whose aims are to destroy another state. I guess if Hitler was alive today, we should just let him say and do whatever he wants, as long as he doesn't attack other countries (which he eventually does, and Hamas eventually did as well). I find it amusing that Ghilan mentions that we are too busy in the west to even care about this conflict. It is his western ignorance of the problems Isreal faced before this recent conflict that is the most appalling. By the way, if a Canadian city was getting rockets fired at it, I would support us going in to remove the problem. And no, I am not Jewish.
Jacob Jan. 16, 2009, 2:35 p.m.
Hamas' stated ideological aim is the destruction of Israel. Since Israeli disengagement, Hamas have been more intent on transforming Gaza into an armed camp bent on the destruction of Israel than creating a successful society in Gaza.
Hamas intentionally targets Israeli civilians. The fact that Hamas fails to inflict the mass-murder they desire does not absolve them of moral culpability for the present conflict. It is also a testament to the vigilance of the Israelis in safeguarding their citizens.
Hamas treats their own people as dispensable inputs in the fight against the nefarious 'Zionist entity'. Hamas is basically a death cult. Their goal is not the material wellbeing of their people, but the destruction of their neighbors. As such using innocent civilians as human shields benefits Hamas, as Israel is condemned in the international community. All this while Israel goes to almost unheard of lengths to minimize civilian casualties (diverting rockets from their course, dropping leaflets, phoning residents of impending strikes).
Jacob Jan. 16, 2009, 2:35 p.m.
Hamas' stated ideological aim is the destruction of Israel. Since Israeli disengagement, Hamas have been more intent on transforming Gaza into an armed camp bent on the destruction of Israel than creating a successful society in Gaza.
Hamas intentionally targets Israeli civilians. The fact that Hamas fails to inflict the mass-murder they desire does not absolve them of moral culpability for the present conflict. It is also a testament to the vigilance of the Israelis in safeguarding their citizens.
Hamas treats their own people as dispensable inputs in the fight against the nefarious 'Zionist entity'. Hamas is basically a death cult. Their goal is not the material wellbeing of their people, but the destruction of their neighbors. As such using innocent civilians as human shields benefits Hamas, as Israel is condemned in the international community. All this while Israel goes to almost unheard of lengths to minimize civilian casualties (diverting rockets from their course, dropping leaflets, phoning residents of impending strikes).
Open Your Eyes Jan. 16, 2009, 2:58 p.m.
Mike and Jacob, regardless of what Hamas has said and done what Isreal is doing is not just. All those women and children that are being killed are also at fault? Right, so it's completely okay for Isreal to bomb all the inhabitants of Gaza because a few rockets were fired by Hamas. Palestinians have no right to defend themselves? They should just sit in the cage made by Isreal and wait till they starve to death. All these dumb analogies of some city firing rockets at another and it having the right to defend itself are completely stupid. Yes, if the people in that city were being starved and their land was stolen and occupied and they were boxed in with no where to go, then yes, that city has every right to fire rockets at the people occupying their lands.
Also, it's worth mentioning that only 19 Isrealis have been killed in the past 8 years and in less than one month, over 1000 Palestinians have been killed. Wow, those must have been some amazing rockets that Hamas were firing, they killed sooo many Isrealis!
Open Your Eyes Jan. 16, 2009, 2:58 p.m.
Mike and Jacob, regardless of what Hamas has said and done what Isreal is doing is not just. All those women and children that are being killed are also at fault? Right, so it's completely okay for Isreal to bomb all the inhabitants of Gaza because a few rockets were fired by Hamas. Palestinians have no right to defend themselves? They should just sit in the cage made by Isreal and wait till they starve to death. All these dumb analogies of some city firing rockets at another and it having the right to defend itself are completely stupid. Yes, if the people in that city were being starved and their land was stolen and occupied and they were boxed in with no where to go, then yes, that city has every right to fire rockets at the people occupying their lands.
Also, it's worth mentioning that only 19 Isrealis have been killed in the past 8 years and in less than one month, over 1000 Palestinians have been killed. Wow, those must have been some amazing rockets that Hamas were firing, they killed sooo many Isrealis!
Jacob Jan. 16, 2009, 3:09 p.m.
Of course innocent civilians are being killed and this is a tragedy. If it were not for the IAF they would indeed be alive today. But the true moral culpability lies with Hamas.
The Axis powers were clearly morally responsible for the misery experienced by their citizens in Hamburg, Dresden, and Tokyo. Does the fact that the United States was largely spared terrible civilian casualties somehow make them the morally guilty party in the second world war? That would be a pretty preposterous argument.
Jacob Jan. 16, 2009, 3:09 p.m.
Of course innocent civilians are being killed and this is a tragedy. If it were not for the IAF they would indeed be alive today. But the true moral culpability lies with Hamas.
The Axis powers were clearly morally responsible for the misery experienced by their citizens in Hamburg, Dresden, and Tokyo. Does the fact that the United States was largely spared terrible civilian casualties somehow make them the morally guilty party in the second world war? That would be a pretty preposterous argument.
batman Jan. 16, 2009, 3:56 p.m.
Hey Jacob, here's some food for thought:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
batman Jan. 16, 2009, 3:56 p.m.
Hey Jacob, here's some food for thought:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
Jacob Jan. 16, 2009, 4:17 p.m.
Yes, obviously the Israelis obviously the Israelis are showing remarkable restraint from a historical perspective.
Where were the loud voices when Russia flattened Grozny (along with 40,000 Muslims civilians) in the mid-90s?
It makes it almost farcical to call the collateral deaths of 400
genocide. Even Yasser Arafat acknowledged that the Kuwaitis inflicted far worse on the Palestinians in 1991 alone (Palestinians ethnically cleansed following Gulf War) than Israel did throughout the course of it's entire history. Also, the Jordanians killed THOUSANDS of Palestinians when they attacked refugee camps in the 1970s.Not to mention the HUNDREDS of thousands of Black Muslims who have died in Darfur recently (along with literally millions displaced). That is genocide.
Of course, only Jews can commit
genocideagainst Palestinians, right?Jacob Jan. 16, 2009, 4:17 p.m.
Yes, obviously the Israelis obviously the Israelis are showing remarkable restraint from a historical perspective.
Where were the loud voices when Russia flattened Grozny (along with 40,000 Muslims civilians) in the mid-90s?
It makes it almost farcical to call the collateral deaths of 400
genocide. Even Yasser Arafat acknowledged that the Kuwaitis inflicted far worse on the Palestinians in 1991 alone (Palestinians ethnically cleansed following Gulf War) than Israel did throughout the course of it's entire history. Also, the Jordanians killed THOUSANDS of Palestinians when they attacked refugee camps in the 1970s.Not to mention the HUNDREDS of thousands of Black Muslims who have died in Darfur recently (along with literally millions displaced). That is genocide.
Of course, only Jews can commit
genocideagainst Palestinians, right?Open Your Eyes Jan. 16, 2009, 5:47 p.m.
Just because other horrible things happened to Palestinians in the past, that does not make the current Gaza situation any better. Why try to justify it by claiming worse things have happened? Oh okay, so just because Palestinians have suffered in the past, this must mean that they deserve to keep suffering, after all, they have been killed in greater numbers before! Who cares about them anyways, when it comes to Muslims, thousands, even millions of deaths don't matter, but if one Jew is killed, the entire world will be condemning the murder and shouting terrorism and not only that, the Israelis will kill the killer, and his family and his neighbours. How many more children must die before someone steps up to stop this disgusting massacre? Palestinians are allowed to be killed, and if they start fighting back they will be massacred mercilessly for their 'terrorist' actions. What has the world come to? It disgusts me how low humanity has become.
Open Your Eyes Jan. 16, 2009, 5:47 p.m.
Just because other horrible things happened to Palestinians in the past, that does not make the current Gaza situation any better. Why try to justify it by claiming worse things have happened? Oh okay, so just because Palestinians have suffered in the past, this must mean that they deserve to keep suffering, after all, they have been killed in greater numbers before! Who cares about them anyways, when it comes to Muslims, thousands, even millions of deaths don't matter, but if one Jew is killed, the entire world will be condemning the murder and shouting terrorism and not only that, the Israelis will kill the killer, and his family and his neighbours. How many more children must die before someone steps up to stop this disgusting massacre? Palestinians are allowed to be killed, and if they start fighting back they will be massacred mercilessly for their 'terrorist' actions. What has the world come to? It disgusts me how low humanity has become.
Jacob Jan. 16, 2009, 6:52 p.m.
My point was that there is REAL genocide going on the in the world today (i Sudan against Muslims); it's not Israel that's doing it (it's other Muslims), and nobody seems to care.
And of course nobody argues that the life of an Israeli is worth more than the life of a Palestinian - that's just some sadistic attitude you've ascribed to the Israelis and their supporters (who, ironically, are also supporters of true Palestinian freedom).
However, there is no moral equivalence between those who intentionally try to inflict mass murder upon civilians and those who target only terrorists whilst attempting to harm as few civilians as possible. To strike a moral equivalence between these two position is to be an apologist for true evil.
Jacob Jan. 16, 2009, 6:52 p.m.
My point was that there is REAL genocide going on the in the world today (i Sudan against Muslims); it's not Israel that's doing it (it's other Muslims), and nobody seems to care.
And of course nobody argues that the life of an Israeli is worth more than the life of a Palestinian - that's just some sadistic attitude you've ascribed to the Israelis and their supporters (who, ironically, are also supporters of true Palestinian freedom).
However, there is no moral equivalence between those who intentionally try to inflict mass murder upon civilians and those who target only terrorists whilst attempting to harm as few civilians as possible. To strike a moral equivalence between these two position is to be an apologist for true evil.
Truth Seeker Jan. 16, 2009, 10:24 p.m.
If we wanted to hear propaganda I would go to CNN or FOX, or some other clear supporter of Zionism. I don't expect anyone here would fall for that nonsense.
So according to the logic of some, it goes like this: If the child of a righteous family rapes and murders, then we must prosecute that entire family for rape and murder.
Much like how
Hamas' stated ideological aim is the destruction of Israel, Israel's ideological aim is the destruction of Palestine.Israeli troops pillage villages, tear down crops, level homes and destroy property on Palestinian land.. that must be for peace. Why would I go blow up my neighbour's house if I wasn't doing what's best for them?
Those poor Israelis, they always have nightmares about rockets landing on their house. I have looked everywhere I can, night and day, high and low, and I cannot manage to conjure an ounce of sympathy for these people.
Let me go hide behind propaganda: Palestinians are evil, they have powerful weapons of mass destruction that are constantly killing hundreds of helpless Israeli civilians that have no food and no water, but tatters for cloth and dry bread for sustenance.
May God help us all.
Truth Seeker Jan. 16, 2009, 10:24 p.m.
If we wanted to hear propaganda I would go to CNN or FOX, or some other clear supporter of Zionism. I don't expect anyone here would fall for that nonsense.
So according to the logic of some, it goes like this: If the child of a righteous family rapes and murders, then we must prosecute that entire family for rape and murder.
Much like how
Hamas' stated ideological aim is the destruction of Israel, Israel's ideological aim is the destruction of Palestine.Israeli troops pillage villages, tear down crops, level homes and destroy property on Palestinian land.. that must be for peace. Why would I go blow up my neighbour's house if I wasn't doing what's best for them?
Those poor Israelis, they always have nightmares about rockets landing on their house. I have looked everywhere I can, night and day, high and low, and I cannot manage to conjure an ounce of sympathy for these people.
Let me go hide behind propaganda: Palestinians are evil, they have powerful weapons of mass destruction that are constantly killing hundreds of helpless Israeli civilians that have no food and no water, but tatters for cloth and dry bread for sustenance.
May God help us all.
Open Your Eyes Jan. 16, 2009, 10:43 p.m.
Ohhhhh, so when they targeted a UN school filled with civilians they were targeting terrorists? Sorry you can't claim that, seeing as how they admitted there were none in there. Also the people who were ordered by the Israeli military to leave their homes and were shot dead while waving white flags. Hmmm they really are targeting terrorists! No denying their actions. Your claims that they're targeting terrorists are shown to be lies when one looks at the facts.
source: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/gaza-residents-waving-white-flags-shot-dead-as-they-flee-their-homes-14138998.html
Open Your Eyes Jan. 16, 2009, 10:43 p.m.
Ohhhhh, so when they targeted a UN school filled with civilians they were targeting terrorists? Sorry you can't claim that, seeing as how they admitted there were none in there. Also the people who were ordered by the Israeli military to leave their homes and were shot dead while waving white flags. Hmmm they really are targeting terrorists! No denying their actions. Your claims that they're targeting terrorists are shown to be lies when one looks at the facts.
source: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/gaza-residents-waving-white-flags-shot-dead-as-they-flee-their-homes-14138998.html
StopWarCrimes Jan. 16, 2009, 11:02 p.m.
Jacob, what does the past have to do with what horror is happening in the present? Why speak of the past when we are trying to fix what’s happening today. I want war to stop; I want the Israelis to stop committing war crimes and leave the poor children alone. Please explain to me why bulldozers are wrecking families’ homes, why a soldier was shooting children for fun, why allowing children to live in fear, why do I see people cry for the loss of their family member, why are they living on the street and dying not just from random gun shooting but from hunger. Can you explain that?
StopWarCrimes Jan. 16, 2009, 11:02 p.m.
Jacob, what does the past have to do with what horror is happening in the present? Why speak of the past when we are trying to fix what’s happening today. I want war to stop; I want the Israelis to stop committing war crimes and leave the poor children alone. Please explain to me why bulldozers are wrecking families’ homes, why a soldier was shooting children for fun, why allowing children to live in fear, why do I see people cry for the loss of their family member, why are they living on the street and dying not just from random gun shooting but from hunger. Can you explain that?
The believer's voice Jan. 16, 2009, 11:53 p.m.
Gaza--->> defiantly the latest target for genocide...doesn't it seem like almost as though if history is repeating it self? Like how the Jews were being slaughtered left in right by the Nazi's...remember the
holocaust...now the Jews are killing the Muslims for just living in their own land! I repeat the land of the Muslims!!!them!!Muslims!!Get it through your thick skulls!Its massacre of women,men and children,and yet Hamas is such a threat to those jewish soilders, which happen to have the latest technology and smart bombs...stupid cowardsThe believer's voice Jan. 16, 2009, 11:53 p.m.
Gaza--->> defiantly the latest target for genocide...doesn't it seem like almost as though if history is repeating it self? Like how the Jews were being slaughtered left in right by the Nazi's...remember the
holocaust...now the Jews are killing the Muslims for just living in their own land! I repeat the land of the Muslims!!!them!!Muslims!!Get it through your thick skulls!Its massacre of women,men and children,and yet Hamas is such a threat to those jewish soilders, which happen to have the latest technology and smart bombs...stupid cowardsJacob Jan. 17, 2009, 12:33 a.m.
There are only so many quasi-literate posts one can rebuke in one day.
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 12:33 a.m.
There are only so many quasi-literate posts one can rebuke in one day.
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 12:47 a.m.
Heh.
Holocaust[sic].It's good to know who I'm dealing with here.
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 12:47 a.m.
Heh.
Holocaust[sic].It's good to know who I'm dealing with here.
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 12:49 a.m.
The anti-semites and holocaust deniers are a lot tougher on the internet using pseudonyms than they are in real life.
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 12:49 a.m.
The anti-semites and holocaust deniers are a lot tougher on the internet using pseudonyms than they are in real life.
Pseudonym Jan. 17, 2009, 1:07 a.m.
I think someone is imagining things, who denied the holocaust? Just because some commenters are against the killing of civilians that somehow makes them anti-semites? Interesting...
Pseudonym Jan. 17, 2009, 1:07 a.m.
I think someone is imagining things, who denied the holocaust? Just because some commenters are against the killing of civilians that somehow makes them anti-semites? Interesting...
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 1:14 a.m.
I was referring to this remark by the believer's voice made at 11:53:
remember theholocaust...now the Jews are killing the Muslims for just living in their own land!Notice how the word is in quotation marks.
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 1:14 a.m.
I was referring to this remark by the believer's voice made at 11:53:
remember theholocaust...now the Jews are killing the Muslims for just living in their own land!Notice how the word is in quotation marks.
Pseudonym Jan. 17, 2009, 1:26 a.m.
Please don't jump to conclusions, the believer's voice probably did that for emphasis. No need to start throwing accusations.
Pseudonym Jan. 17, 2009, 1:26 a.m.
Please don't jump to conclusions, the believer's voice probably did that for emphasis. No need to start throwing accusations.
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 1:26 a.m.
Point taken. I'll let the original poster respond for him/herself.
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 1:26 a.m.
Point taken. I'll let the original poster respond for him/herself.
The believer's voice Jan. 17, 2009, 1:33 a.m.
Jacob I'm not denying anything about the holocaust cause yeah it happened and I'm just saying that,you know how people say we should learn about history so it doesn't repeat itself,well look around cause it happening right now...you got a problem with
quotation marks?The believer's voice Jan. 17, 2009, 1:33 a.m.
Jacob I'm not denying anything about the holocaust cause yeah it happened and I'm just saying that,you know how people say we should learn about history so it doesn't repeat itself,well look around cause it happening right now...you got a problem with
quotation marks?StopWarCrimes Jan. 17, 2009, 1:53 a.m.
Notice how Jacob totaly ignored my questions and totaly jumped to conclusions.
StopWarCrimes Jan. 17, 2009, 1:53 a.m.
Notice how Jacob totaly ignored my questions and totaly jumped to conclusions.
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 1:54 a.m.
Yeah, we ought to indeed learn from history.
That's why we should not be apologists for terrorists who wish to inflict real genocide.
Hamas and Hezbullah are essentially puppets of their imperial masters in Damascus and Tehran. The president of Iran has on numerous occasions professed a wish to destroy Israel. This goal, along with the support of terrorist proxies, and the pursuit of WMD means that Israel does indeed face an existential threat.
How deluded one most be to think that the forces of freedom, democracy, and secularism (Israel) wish to PERPETRATE another Holocaust when they are actually doing everything in their power to prevent one done against them by fundamentalist, dark aged fascists (Hamas, Hizbullah, Al Qaeda, the Iranian leadership).
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 1:54 a.m.
Yeah, we ought to indeed learn from history.
That's why we should not be apologists for terrorists who wish to inflict real genocide.
Hamas and Hezbullah are essentially puppets of their imperial masters in Damascus and Tehran. The president of Iran has on numerous occasions professed a wish to destroy Israel. This goal, along with the support of terrorist proxies, and the pursuit of WMD means that Israel does indeed face an existential threat.
How deluded one most be to think that the forces of freedom, democracy, and secularism (Israel) wish to PERPETRATE another Holocaust when they are actually doing everything in their power to prevent one done against them by fundamentalist, dark aged fascists (Hamas, Hizbullah, Al Qaeda, the Iranian leadership).
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 2:05 a.m.
Jacob, what does the past have to do with what horror is happening in the present?I think it's fine to bring the IDF/IAF into account for its errors, excesses, and occasional shameful displays. That's fine. But to call into question a nation's very right to defend itself is something that reasonable people have to look on with suspicion. The point is that Israel faces an absurd amount of criticism for, in historical circumstances, a responsible use of force.
In the 1999 Kosovo war, NATO killed approximately 500-2000 civilians in order to prevent genocide (what I consider to be a fairly legitimate rationale for a military response). No NATO soldiers were killed as the campaign was conducted from the air. The Israelis are actually putting soldiers in harm's way to reduce innocent Palestinian casualties. One must have a sense of history and the costs and benefits associated with military conflict.
Why speak of the past when we are trying to fix what’s happening today. I want war to stop;We'd all prefer there was no war. Israel has no partner for peace in Gaza at the moments. The current Israeli government cannot sit around while hundreds of rockets rain down on southern Israel.
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 2:05 a.m.
Jacob, what does the past have to do with what horror is happening in the present?I think it's fine to bring the IDF/IAF into account for its errors, excesses, and occasional shameful displays. That's fine. But to call into question a nation's very right to defend itself is something that reasonable people have to look on with suspicion. The point is that Israel faces an absurd amount of criticism for, in historical circumstances, a responsible use of force.
In the 1999 Kosovo war, NATO killed approximately 500-2000 civilians in order to prevent genocide (what I consider to be a fairly legitimate rationale for a military response). No NATO soldiers were killed as the campaign was conducted from the air. The Israelis are actually putting soldiers in harm's way to reduce innocent Palestinian casualties. One must have a sense of history and the costs and benefits associated with military conflict.
Why speak of the past when we are trying to fix what’s happening today. I want war to stop;We'd all prefer there was no war. Israel has no partner for peace in Gaza at the moments. The current Israeli government cannot sit around while hundreds of rockets rain down on southern Israel.
Balther J. Jensen Jan. 17, 2009, 5:20 a.m.
I just wrote on a 'blog' in the Danish newspaper 'Berlingske Tidende' as a reply to an Journalist's blog, 'Krigens proportionalitet' dated, 17.jan.2009,09:02. but written i Danish.
That for every child that is killed or wounded i Gaza, there will be 100,000, children who will get such a hatred for the jews, which cannot be described, and that hatred will last for the rest of their lives.I know,because:
I was a child in Denmark in 1940-45, when Denmark was occupied by the Germans and the Nazists, and I recall all their atrocities, which I shall never forget, despite that I'm now close to 77 year old.
I fail to see any difference between the Nazists and the Jews, they act in precisely the same manner. They are all Terrorist and Criminals in my opinion.
Abdullah
( My Muslim name )
Balther J. Jensen Jan. 17, 2009, 5:20 a.m.
I just wrote on a 'blog' in the Danish newspaper 'Berlingske Tidende' as a reply to an Journalist's blog, 'Krigens proportionalitet' dated, 17.jan.2009,09:02. but written i Danish.
That for every child that is killed or wounded i Gaza, there will be 100,000, children who will get such a hatred for the jews, which cannot be described, and that hatred will last for the rest of their lives.I know,because:
I was a child in Denmark in 1940-45, when Denmark was occupied by the Germans and the Nazists, and I recall all their atrocities, which I shall never forget, despite that I'm now close to 77 year old.
I fail to see any difference between the Nazists and the Jews, they act in precisely the same manner. They are all Terrorist and Criminals in my opinion.
Abdullah
( My Muslim name )
Shima Jan. 17, 2009, 12:01 p.m.
Mike and Jacob
You want to talk about equal? Let us discuss the simple definition of equal: evenly proportioned or balanced. Now, using simple math and satistics, Palestinian death toll 1203 , Isreali death toll 19 . Using grade 2 logic, does that look
equalto you? Here is a situation of the oppresser and oppressed, the strong and the weak, the coward and the unexpecting. For you to mention Hitler in this situation is as worthless as mentioning the British unjustly stealing the First Nations' land... a manipulated history! I am not denying you your right to educate and enlighten yourself on both sides of the history, but pick up a book, and when you do, look at the back and check the publisher, and yes I am Muslim and yes I am Canadian!Shima Jan. 17, 2009, 12:01 p.m.
Mike and Jacob
You want to talk about equal? Let us discuss the simple definition of equal: evenly proportioned or balanced. Now, using simple math and satistics, Palestinian death toll 1203 , Isreali death toll 19 . Using grade 2 logic, does that look
equalto you? Here is a situation of the oppresser and oppressed, the strong and the weak, the coward and the unexpecting. For you to mention Hitler in this situation is as worthless as mentioning the British unjustly stealing the First Nations' land... a manipulated history! I am not denying you your right to educate and enlighten yourself on both sides of the history, but pick up a book, and when you do, look at the back and check the publisher, and yes I am Muslim and yes I am Canadian!StopWarCrimes Jan. 17, 2009, 1:31 p.m.
I do not deny that the Jews did have a hard time back then, and I wish they didn't. No human being should be treated the way the Jews were back then. But that doesn’t give them the right to break the law. That doesn't give them the right to harm innocent lives, and that doesn’t give them the right to make up lies to hide what their really doing. When they bombed the school, which by the way children and women were using for shelter, they said that Palistean terrorists were using it to hide from Israel, but there was no evidence that they found that proved their case. Now I don’t know lots about history but I do know right from wrong.
StopWarCrimes Jan. 17, 2009, 1:31 p.m.
I do not deny that the Jews did have a hard time back then, and I wish they didn't. No human being should be treated the way the Jews were back then. But that doesn’t give them the right to break the law. That doesn't give them the right to harm innocent lives, and that doesn’t give them the right to make up lies to hide what their really doing. When they bombed the school, which by the way children and women were using for shelter, they said that Palistean terrorists were using it to hide from Israel, but there was no evidence that they found that proved their case. Now I don’t know lots about history but I do know right from wrong.
EndtheEraofColonization Jan. 17, 2009, 4:22 p.m.
Jacob et al: I suggest you look up the following films: 'Occupation 101', 'The Tragedy of the Holy Land', and 'Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land',
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/herzl/index.cfm ,
and then get back to us.
By many historical accounts, Judea, home of Jews in ancient times, was taken over by the Romans, who renamed it Palestine. Palestine was then conquered by the Arabs, who have now lived there for over a thousand years. The Zionist movement grew in an attempt to return Jews to Israel. However, the problem lies therein; the Zionist movement very often ignores the expansive Arab population already living in Palestine.- The ExponentAnd how did they ignore them? By bulldozing over them. The ones that remained were refugees numbering over 726 000 - in 1948 alone.
I'm sorry, who has a right to defend themselves?
EndtheEraofColonization Jan. 17, 2009, 4:22 p.m.
Jacob et al: I suggest you look up the following films: 'Occupation 101', 'The Tragedy of the Holy Land', and 'Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land',
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/herzl/index.cfm ,
and then get back to us.
By many historical accounts, Judea, home of Jews in ancient times, was taken over by the Romans, who renamed it Palestine. Palestine was then conquered by the Arabs, who have now lived there for over a thousand years. The Zionist movement grew in an attempt to return Jews to Israel. However, the problem lies therein; the Zionist movement very often ignores the expansive Arab population already living in Palestine.- The ExponentAnd how did they ignore them? By bulldozing over them. The ones that remained were refugees numbering over 726 000 - in 1948 alone.
I'm sorry, who has a right to defend themselves?
Lema Jan. 17, 2009, 5:50 p.m.
I truly want to know-why do people always try to pick up a fight?(hint hint-jacob)I was at a rally last weekend and everyone was shouting things like
Free free palestinewhy isnt anyone listening?America is saying they have a democracy.they are supporting isreal.everyone is telling isreal and america to LEAVE PALESTINE ALONE!and they are saying they have a democracy?since when?america attacks iraq-not listening-isreal(and america) attack palestine-not listening-.is there ever going to be freedom of speech without getting attacked?1203 dead in palestine.19 dead in isreal. Isreal is calling palestine the terrorist??isreal needs to get it through their hard heads that THEY ARE THE TERRORISTS. ill drill a hole in their heads if i have to!!(p.s i am 11 years old)
Lema Jan. 17, 2009, 5:50 p.m.
I truly want to know-why do people always try to pick up a fight?(hint hint-jacob)I was at a rally last weekend and everyone was shouting things like
Free free palestinewhy isnt anyone listening?America is saying they have a democracy.they are supporting isreal.everyone is telling isreal and america to LEAVE PALESTINE ALONE!and they are saying they have a democracy?since when?america attacks iraq-not listening-isreal(and america) attack palestine-not listening-.is there ever going to be freedom of speech without getting attacked?1203 dead in palestine.19 dead in isreal. Isreal is calling palestine the terrorist??isreal needs to get it through their hard heads that THEY ARE THE TERRORISTS. ill drill a hole in their heads if i have to!!(p.s i am 11 years old)
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 6:05 p.m.
Free speech eh?
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=230
Jacob Jan. 17, 2009, 6:05 p.m.
Free speech eh?
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=230
lema Jan. 17, 2009, 6:54 p.m.
You know jacob...it would be smart if you READ the stuff before u try and display it against me.
They are attacking them because they want to show them-we dont give a damn just give them their freedom and peace and all this crap will be over!The police and whatnot are not letting us display our opinions! But they just let the isreali supporters go by encourouging them as if its a jog in a park. They are fighting against the oppressors. This article is trying to tell you that if youtake out ur ipod headphones and change the channel from E! news to CNN you will relize that there is innocents fighting for survival and then theres the terrorists that point at a little boy playing soccor with his friends and screaming
TERRORIST!!BANG!maybe you should stop your arguing and think about why palestines attacking isreal. and why people all around the world rooting for palestine are attacking instead of speaking.cause i have a feeling that you think that islam is all about ATTACK ATTACK!
Islam means peace.thats all we want.
lema Jan. 17, 2009, 6:54 p.m.
You know jacob...it would be smart if you READ the stuff before u try and display it against me.
They are attacking them because they want to show them-we dont give a damn just give them their freedom and peace and all this crap will be over!The police and whatnot are not letting us display our opinions! But they just let the isreali supporters go by encourouging them as if its a jog in a park. They are fighting against the oppressors. This article is trying to tell you that if youtake out ur ipod headphones and change the channel from E! news to CNN you will relize that there is innocents fighting for survival and then theres the terrorists that point at a little boy playing soccor with his friends and screaming
TERRORIST!!BANG!maybe you should stop your arguing and think about why palestines attacking isreal. and why people all around the world rooting for palestine are attacking instead of speaking.cause i have a feeling that you think that islam is all about ATTACK ATTACK!
Islam means peace.thats all we want.
Nick Cohea Jan. 19, 2009, 5:04 a.m.
It saddens me to read all this. In the long stream of comments rightly condemning Israel's behavior, most are filled with the common traps, and it enables Jacob to just pick you all off. Why make terrible arguments when good arguments exist?
Israel is not on a genocidal campaign. It is true that it is killing a lot of people unjustly, but that's all you have to say. When you attempt to characterize the Israeli murders as
genocide,you just show those opposing the campaign to be a bunch of freaks, and that's what we look like. Nobody pays attention to us, and Palestinians die as a result. The Gaza massacre is really serious, and we need to act like we're serious about stopping it or any such massacre in the future.This article is an embarrassment to the memory of Palestinians. We're about to begin a sustained campaign to pressure Israel to stop all such atrocities, and the first major salvo launched in support of that campaign comes from someone who clearly cannot keep his cool, and most of the people rushing to his defense also cannot keep their cool.
I can only imagine the Palestinian Arabs who might be reading this nonsense coming from the West. I imagine if I were such an Arab, I'd be very angry. I'd be shaking my fist screaming
you're killing me and my people with your words, because now nobody will listen to you, the people who claim to support my cause!!!I would love it if we could rise to the level of being ineffective, because at the moment we're counterproductive. The remarks--I won't call them arguments--coming from those against the Gaza campaign lend themselves to exploitation by those who support the Israeli murders, and they alienate the audience, virtual assuring Palestinian suffering will continue for all time.
Nick Cohea Jan. 19, 2009, 5:04 a.m.
It saddens me to read all this. In the long stream of comments rightly condemning Israel's behavior, most are filled with the common traps, and it enables Jacob to just pick you all off. Why make terrible arguments when good arguments exist?
Israel is not on a genocidal campaign. It is true that it is killing a lot of people unjustly, but that's all you have to say. When you attempt to characterize the Israeli murders as
genocide,you just show those opposing the campaign to be a bunch of freaks, and that's what we look like. Nobody pays attention to us, and Palestinians die as a result. The Gaza massacre is really serious, and we need to act like we're serious about stopping it or any such massacre in the future.This article is an embarrassment to the memory of Palestinians. We're about to begin a sustained campaign to pressure Israel to stop all such atrocities, and the first major salvo launched in support of that campaign comes from someone who clearly cannot keep his cool, and most of the people rushing to his defense also cannot keep their cool.
I can only imagine the Palestinian Arabs who might be reading this nonsense coming from the West. I imagine if I were such an Arab, I'd be very angry. I'd be shaking my fist screaming
you're killing me and my people with your words, because now nobody will listen to you, the people who claim to support my cause!!!I would love it if we could rise to the level of being ineffective, because at the moment we're counterproductive. The remarks--I won't call them arguments--coming from those against the Gaza campaign lend themselves to exploitation by those who support the Israeli murders, and they alienate the audience, virtual assuring Palestinian suffering will continue for all time.