Layton needs to sit down with May
A word to the wise for NDP leader Jack Layton: stop dismissing, ignoring and trivializing the Green party. You do so at risk to your political future, and your party’s electoral success.
I admire the deft skill with which Layton has turned the fortunes of the NDP around. He took the party from 19 seats in 2004 to 30 seats in 2008, and also helped the party win a much-coveted and all important Quebec seat. With their increased representation in parliament, the party was able to influence a corporate Liberal budget.
Layton has had to fight factions of his party each step of the way in order to modernize and steer his party to more middle-of-the-road policies and positions. He has worked tirelessly to showcase his party as a moderate, centre-left alternative to the Liberals.
Now, however, Layton is faced with a new reality with which he is coping poorly: the surge of the Green Party. In the recent byelections, the Greens made huge progress in all four ridings, increasing their popular support at the expense of the New Democrats. Green leader Elizabeth May was thrilled. Layton wouldn’t talk to reporters.
He seems determined to stay the course, either out of angry stubbornness or confidence that the NDP message will win out over the Green message at the end of the day. The NDP has a bigger election war chest and more campaign infrastructure, but the reality is that the NDP war chest did not help the party in the byelections.
The achingly obvious fact is that outspending the Greens won’t make them go away. The Greens have sometimes polled very high in the past, but when an election came around, their support always crumbled. But the byelections have shown that the people who are saying they will vote Green are actually doing it.
Layton knows that when a Canadian political party splits its vote with another party, the electoral result is disastrous because seats are not allocated proportionately. It’s a problem that Stephen Harper addressed when he negotiated the merger between the Canadian Alliance and the Progressive Conservative party. Had he not done so, there would not be a national Conservative Party able to form government.
If Layton doesn’t start talking to the Greens and coming to an agreement, his party’s 30 seat advantage will evaporate into obscurity in the next election. If the Greens win a single seat in the next election, or simply maintain their popular support, it will come at the expense of the NDP. I sympathize with Layton’s frustrations. He is a man who has worked his entire life on the climate change issue, and leads a party with an excellent environment platform. It must be excruciating to see his support eaten away by another third party.
But my sympathy ends there. Layton needs to take action and form a coalition with the Green Party in order to increase both parties’ presence in the House of Commons. He has in Elizabeth May an ally on the environment file, and a democrat willing to listen.
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James T. April 3, 2008, 9:43 a.m.
Until the so-called greens win a single seat in Parliament, they should have the decency to respect their betters and be quiet. The party of Tommy Douglas and Medicare has NOTHING to learn from a gang of misfits, troublemakers and malcontents whose biggest accomplishment is manufacturing enough dissent to keep the taxpayer's underwriting their good time.
James T. April 3, 2008, 9:43 a.m.
Until the so-called greens win a single seat in Parliament, they should have the decency to respect their betters and be quiet. The party of Tommy Douglas and Medicare has NOTHING to learn from a gang of misfits, troublemakers and malcontents whose biggest accomplishment is manufacturing enough dissent to keep the taxpayer's underwriting their good time.
Marc Kobayashi April 3, 2008, 9:49 a.m.
I could not agree more.
Mr. Layton betrayed many Green supporter by promising proportional representation would be mandatory to support the government. In 2004, he campaigned on the issue with the slogan
a vote for the NDP is a vote for Greens. He then squandered several such opportunities, including the one that brought down the Liberal government, and installed the Conservative minority to the detriment of the shared values of all opposition parties.Politics are evolving, and in order to have our government actually function democratically, we must look at some form of proportional representation, and we must demand that our elected representatives act as diplomats, and leave partisanship behind.
Good ideas should not be lost because they came from
the enemy, and bad policy should never be justified by good PR!During the Parliamentary Press Dinner, Mr. Layton spontaneously auctioned off a dinner with himself and his wife Olivia. What most reports about this did not include was that Elizabeth May won the Auction. Elizabeth May was hinting at bringing Stephane Dion as her guest. Does anyone know if Jack Layton and Elizabeth May actually ever meet over dinner?
Marc Kobayashi April 3, 2008, 9:49 a.m.
I could not agree more.
Mr. Layton betrayed many Green supporter by promising proportional representation would be mandatory to support the government. In 2004, he campaigned on the issue with the slogan
a vote for the NDP is a vote for Greens. He then squandered several such opportunities, including the one that brought down the Liberal government, and installed the Conservative minority to the detriment of the shared values of all opposition parties.Politics are evolving, and in order to have our government actually function democratically, we must look at some form of proportional representation, and we must demand that our elected representatives act as diplomats, and leave partisanship behind.
Good ideas should not be lost because they came from
the enemy, and bad policy should never be justified by good PR!During the Parliamentary Press Dinner, Mr. Layton spontaneously auctioned off a dinner with himself and his wife Olivia. What most reports about this did not include was that Elizabeth May won the Auction. Elizabeth May was hinting at bringing Stephane Dion as her guest. Does anyone know if Jack Layton and Elizabeth May actually ever meet over dinner?
Marc Kobayashi April 3, 2008, 10:02 a.m.
Just to clarify...
I could not agree more.with Spencer Anderson.Speaking of unproductive partisanship... See James T.
Marc Kobayashi April 3, 2008, 10:02 a.m.
Just to clarify...
I could not agree more.with Spencer Anderson.Speaking of unproductive partisanship... See James T.
dan April 3, 2008, 11:21 a.m.
The NDP has been working on PR. In the last Parliament Ed Boardbent was able to get a committee to recommend the next steps. In this Parliament the NDP's Catherine Bell then pushed a motion forward to take those steps. It was soundly defeated by the Liberals, Bloc and the Conservatives.
As for talking with May, why? While they both want to protect the environment the Green's are far-more conservative and pro business than the NDP in their approach.
The NDP war chests did help them in the bielections because the NDP didn't open them. As for the myth that the Greens are steeling votes from the NDP is actually a little simplistic. They are actually drawing bigger numbers from Liberals and Conservativs now that the NDP. The NDP has been dealing the Greens for years and has already lost its what it is going to lose to them. In the Last Ontario Proviencial Election both the NDP and Green numbers went up!
I know it is hard for some people to believe but the Greens and the NDP are two drastically different parties. This silly question would be like asking the NDP and Conservatives to merge.
dan April 3, 2008, 11:21 a.m.
The NDP has been working on PR. In the last Parliament Ed Boardbent was able to get a committee to recommend the next steps. In this Parliament the NDP's Catherine Bell then pushed a motion forward to take those steps. It was soundly defeated by the Liberals, Bloc and the Conservatives.
As for talking with May, why? While they both want to protect the environment the Green's are far-more conservative and pro business than the NDP in their approach.
The NDP war chests did help them in the bielections because the NDP didn't open them. As for the myth that the Greens are steeling votes from the NDP is actually a little simplistic. They are actually drawing bigger numbers from Liberals and Conservativs now that the NDP. The NDP has been dealing the Greens for years and has already lost its what it is going to lose to them. In the Last Ontario Proviencial Election both the NDP and Green numbers went up!
I know it is hard for some people to believe but the Greens and the NDP are two drastically different parties. This silly question would be like asking the NDP and Conservatives to merge.
Marc Kobayashi April 3, 2008, 12:29 p.m.
Thank you Dan. That was very contributory.
I've always liked Ed Boardbent, but Catherine Bell pushed the Proportional Representation motion at the wrong time, as it was not leveraged to support the government (as was promised). Jack Layton has completely abandoned Proportional Representation in favour of Senate Reform, in which he pushes for abolishment of the Senate far too often for my liking. Especially considering that the Senate is the only thing desperately trying to keep Harper's Conservatives in check (
sober second though).Yes, the Greens are stealing votes from all parties, but the NDP has the least to lose, and could be fatal in a vote splitting first-past-the-post electoral system. Of course I'm not suggesting that the NDP & the Greens merge into a new Party, but common ground must be found to form a coalition for the next pending election, lest we elect another Conservative Government.
I don't understand Jack's strategy: 1. Continue to discredit the Greens and Liberals. 2. Become the official Opposition Party. And then what? 3. Abstain from voting down the government just like the Liberals because you don't want another Conservative Government.
At least the Greens and the Liberals acknowledged the realities of first-past-the-post and the consequences of vote splitting. Harper & McKay learned real fast, and are now reaping the benefits.
Don't get me wrong about the NDP. I like a tremendous amount of their policies. But if they continue to be partisan, I believe their ability to be relevant and deliver those much needed policies (policies that all opposition parties are currently in favour of) will be lost forever.
Marc Kobayashi April 3, 2008, 12:29 p.m.
Thank you Dan. That was very contributory.
I've always liked Ed Boardbent, but Catherine Bell pushed the Proportional Representation motion at the wrong time, as it was not leveraged to support the government (as was promised). Jack Layton has completely abandoned Proportional Representation in favour of Senate Reform, in which he pushes for abolishment of the Senate far too often for my liking. Especially considering that the Senate is the only thing desperately trying to keep Harper's Conservatives in check (
sober second though).Yes, the Greens are stealing votes from all parties, but the NDP has the least to lose, and could be fatal in a vote splitting first-past-the-post electoral system. Of course I'm not suggesting that the NDP & the Greens merge into a new Party, but common ground must be found to form a coalition for the next pending election, lest we elect another Conservative Government.
I don't understand Jack's strategy: 1. Continue to discredit the Greens and Liberals. 2. Become the official Opposition Party. And then what? 3. Abstain from voting down the government just like the Liberals because you don't want another Conservative Government.
At least the Greens and the Liberals acknowledged the realities of first-past-the-post and the consequences of vote splitting. Harper & McKay learned real fast, and are now reaping the benefits.
Don't get me wrong about the NDP. I like a tremendous amount of their policies. But if they continue to be partisan, I believe their ability to be relevant and deliver those much needed policies (policies that all opposition parties are currently in favour of) will be lost forever.
Lance Rawlings April 3, 2008, 1:06 p.m.
I agree with the author. It's incredibly unfortunate that Jack Layton is so arrogant that he cannot simply sit down with Elizabeth May. The Green Party of Canada and Green Parties of the world exist for a reason, and are not going away anytime in the near future. If there's one thing the Green Party has proved throughout the last few years, its the they're not going away.
Jack Layton brought down the house on the opening day of climate change discussion under Prime Minister Paul Martin. On that day, Jack Layton choose a petty career move over the possibility of making real progress on one of the most important issue the human race has ever encountered. Under that minority government, real change could have been initiated.
This unfortunately isn't the only flaw in the NDP's environmental understanding of effective policy applications, but that's talk for another day.
Talk of proportional representation is good. But we don't have it yet. Until then we need cooperation amongst all parties remotely competent on the environment.
Lance Rawlings April 3, 2008, 1:06 p.m.
I agree with the author. It's incredibly unfortunate that Jack Layton is so arrogant that he cannot simply sit down with Elizabeth May. The Green Party of Canada and Green Parties of the world exist for a reason, and are not going away anytime in the near future. If there's one thing the Green Party has proved throughout the last few years, its the they're not going away.
Jack Layton brought down the house on the opening day of climate change discussion under Prime Minister Paul Martin. On that day, Jack Layton choose a petty career move over the possibility of making real progress on one of the most important issue the human race has ever encountered. Under that minority government, real change could have been initiated.
This unfortunately isn't the only flaw in the NDP's environmental understanding of effective policy applications, but that's talk for another day.
Talk of proportional representation is good. But we don't have it yet. Until then we need cooperation amongst all parties remotely competent on the environment.
Mike April 3, 2008, 8:33 p.m.
The NDP war chests did help them in the bielections because the NDP didn't open them. As for the myth that the Greens are steeling votes from the NDP is actually a little simplistic. They are actually drawing bigger numbers from Liberals and Conservativs now that the NDP. The NDP has been dealing the Greens for years and has already lost its what it is going to lose to them. In the Last Ontario Proviencial Election both the NDP and Green numbers went up!If you look at the by-election results, it's actually not as simplistic as you think. It appeared that in one of the Toronto ridings, while the Liberal and Conservative votes remained about the same, the NDP vote went down while the Green went up. In Toronto Centre, the Tory vote went down as well as the NDP vote, but this may have been the result of a candidate controversy on the part of the Conservatives than a permanent shift to the Greens.
Also, in Vancouver-Quadra, the Green vote went up quite a bit, while the NDP vote went way down. It does seem overall as if there is a fair amount of shift from the NDP to the Greens.
Also, a provincial election is no way to gauge federal politics, especially in Ontario, which tends to vote different ways provincially than federally. In the years that Chretien was in power with a 100-seat juggernaut in Ontario, Conservative Mike Harris was premier. During Mulroney's tenure, the premier of the day was either Liberal David Peterson or then-Dipper Bob Rae. What happens in Ontario politics, with relation to the federal scene, means nil.
You are right, however, in saying this merger will not happen. It won't for two reasons.
1) While the Greens opt to balance environmental sustainability and economic prosperity to the best of their abilities, the latter does not seem to be of much concern to the NDP.
2) The Greens like to promote themselves as being
abovethe political spectrum. I remember one Green candidate telling an audience that he wasn't left or right, but forward. To merge with any political party would contradict this message they've been conveying for quite a few years now- not good optics.Mike April 3, 2008, 8:33 p.m.
The NDP war chests did help them in the bielections because the NDP didn't open them. As for the myth that the Greens are steeling votes from the NDP is actually a little simplistic. They are actually drawing bigger numbers from Liberals and Conservativs now that the NDP. The NDP has been dealing the Greens for years and has already lost its what it is going to lose to them. In the Last Ontario Proviencial Election both the NDP and Green numbers went up!If you look at the by-election results, it's actually not as simplistic as you think. It appeared that in one of the Toronto ridings, while the Liberal and Conservative votes remained about the same, the NDP vote went down while the Green went up. In Toronto Centre, the Tory vote went down as well as the NDP vote, but this may have been the result of a candidate controversy on the part of the Conservatives than a permanent shift to the Greens.
Also, in Vancouver-Quadra, the Green vote went up quite a bit, while the NDP vote went way down. It does seem overall as if there is a fair amount of shift from the NDP to the Greens.
Also, a provincial election is no way to gauge federal politics, especially in Ontario, which tends to vote different ways provincially than federally. In the years that Chretien was in power with a 100-seat juggernaut in Ontario, Conservative Mike Harris was premier. During Mulroney's tenure, the premier of the day was either Liberal David Peterson or then-Dipper Bob Rae. What happens in Ontario politics, with relation to the federal scene, means nil.
You are right, however, in saying this merger will not happen. It won't for two reasons.
1) While the Greens opt to balance environmental sustainability and economic prosperity to the best of their abilities, the latter does not seem to be of much concern to the NDP.
2) The Greens like to promote themselves as being
abovethe political spectrum. I remember one Green candidate telling an audience that he wasn't left or right, but forward. To merge with any political party would contradict this message they've been conveying for quite a few years now- not good optics.Adnrew Allen April 3, 2008, 8:39 p.m.
While they both want to protect the environment the Green's are far-more conservative and pro business than the NDP in their approach.EXACTLY! The NDP and Green Party are not compatible beyond their care of the environment. I joined the Green Party precisely because they had pro-business economic policies in addition to having a solid plan for the environment. Let's also not forget that the NDP and Greens completely disagree on Afghanistan too.
I think that Stephane Dion's stance on the environment should also not be forgotten though. He's trying to get the green vote as well and Elizabeth May has even said that he is her choice for Prime Minister (aside from herself of course).
Adnrew Allen April 3, 2008, 8:39 p.m.
While they both want to protect the environment the Green's are far-more conservative and pro business than the NDP in their approach.EXACTLY! The NDP and Green Party are not compatible beyond their care of the environment. I joined the Green Party precisely because they had pro-business economic policies in addition to having a solid plan for the environment. Let's also not forget that the NDP and Greens completely disagree on Afghanistan too.
I think that Stephane Dion's stance on the environment should also not be forgotten though. He's trying to get the green vote as well and Elizabeth May has even said that he is her choice for Prime Minister (aside from herself of course).
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Web Editor April 4, 2008, 4:22 p.m.
Hi Posters,
Posts were deleted because they were totally false or deliberately insulted other posters. Please review our stated guidelines to keep this thread open.
Try to keep comments professional and on topic; personal attacks against other posters or writers will be deleted.
Thank you,
Steve Carey
Martlet Web Editor