Olympic torch relay money better spent elsewhere
I am tired of our government telling us that there is no money for healthcare and education while shelling out for a spectacle such as the Olympic torch relay.
As a young woman who is completing her Masters of Arts, I felt compelled to join the protests Friday, Oct. 30. I don’t normally join public protests, but the Vancouver Olympic Games are something my generation is going to be paying off for a long time. And not only in monetary costs, but in social costs as well.
I enjoy watching sports and, as an athlete myself, I can appreciate that this part of the Games is important for future athletes and for the athletes competing now. After all, everyone wants to achieve their dreams.
However, the problem is that the athletics aspect of the Games has been superseded by corporate gains.
This has produced an extremely strong Olympic industry with the ability to act politically. Most supporters of the Games do not see this aspect.
For example, in the Olympic Charter, Rule 51.3 reads: “No kind of demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda is permitted in any Olympic sites, venues or other areas.”
While I understand the intention of this is to prevent hate crimes, this is too broad and can be used to stifle free speech. A host city has to agree to the Charter, even if the city’s or country’s citizens don’t.
I do wish to offer a sincere apology to the people who did not get to see the torch, as they had hoped to, due to the protest.
I also wish to express that protesters are not a homogeneous group; many of us were just as unhappy with the f-word being tossed around as were those out for the event.
However, it seemed a disgraceful waste of money to have so many police officers assigned to a peaceful event. I did not see anyone except the police trying to instigate trouble (my partner was harassed several times for putting his bandanna up in the rain — he was cold).
They did do a good job of crowd control, but how much money was wasted on them all being on duty and paid overtime?
I take issue with the fact that it is only when these mega-events occur that the government puts money into infrastructure that should be invested in regardless (transportation infrastructure or athletic/sport buildings and support).
I have a problem with the fact that I had no say as to whether or not the Olympics came to B.C., but I will be paying for it.
Finally, I feel as if the short-term benefits of the Olympics (the world’s attention on B.C., the short economic boost, the infrastructure) do not outweigh the long-term costs (displacement of the lower classes, the environmental impact, a further mockery of First Nations’ culture and claims to land and the potential of further security apparatuses being implemented in our cities — to name a few).
And lest we forget, the torch relay itself is a product of Hitler’s Nazi regime as a way to spark nationalist pride in the Third Reich. All the previous Olympics simply had a torch lighting ceremony.
Sort of puts it in perspective, doesn’t it.


40 Comments
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George Nov. 5, 2009, 10:18 a.m.
Sylvia, you clearly have based all your knowledge on this topic on misinformation from uninformed people.
First - The Olympics are the least corporate of the top level sporting events. At Olympic sites, and on TV, you wont see corporate logos on the ice rink walls or in the ice. You wont see corporate logos along the ski runs, you wont see anything except
Vancouver 2010logos. Any other top level sporting event, you would see adds squished everywhere. Watch footage from past Olympics, and you will see. No corporate dominance.Second - A city and province can make money off the Olympics. Calgary hosted the winter Olympics in 1988, and now athletes from any economic background can participate in winter and summer sports at high levels for free, or with huge subsidies because of the foundation set up by the money made from the Olympics.
Third - If you have a big crowd, you need a lot of police in case something does get out of hand. There is a large police presence any time there is a large gathering of people, even at things like Canada day, or parades. Its part of their job to ensure people and property are safe. I am sure you would be pretty angry if a friend of yours was beat up by someone angry about the protests, and the police weren't there to help your friend. Or if you had a store, and someone broke the front window, and no one was there to stop the vandal.
fourth - The connection to the Nazi party is ridiculous. The Nazi party also started Volkswagon, and the audubon. Should we protest those things as well?
George Nov. 5, 2009, 10:18 a.m.
Sylvia, you clearly have based all your knowledge on this topic on misinformation from uninformed people.
First - The Olympics are the least corporate of the top level sporting events. At Olympic sites, and on TV, you wont see corporate logos on the ice rink walls or in the ice. You wont see corporate logos along the ski runs, you wont see anything except
Vancouver 2010logos. Any other top level sporting event, you would see adds squished everywhere. Watch footage from past Olympics, and you will see. No corporate dominance.Second - A city and province can make money off the Olympics. Calgary hosted the winter Olympics in 1988, and now athletes from any economic background can participate in winter and summer sports at high levels for free, or with huge subsidies because of the foundation set up by the money made from the Olympics.
Third - If you have a big crowd, you need a lot of police in case something does get out of hand. There is a large police presence any time there is a large gathering of people, even at things like Canada day, or parades. Its part of their job to ensure people and property are safe. I am sure you would be pretty angry if a friend of yours was beat up by someone angry about the protests, and the police weren't there to help your friend. Or if you had a store, and someone broke the front window, and no one was there to stop the vandal.
fourth - The connection to the Nazi party is ridiculous. The Nazi party also started Volkswagon, and the audubon. Should we protest those things as well?
Andrew Nov. 7, 2009, 8:44 a.m.
Blaming the Olympics for everything that isn't perfect in British Columbia is just so trendy these days. Where were these people the past 6 years?
Andrew Nov. 7, 2009, 8:44 a.m.
Blaming the Olympics for everything that isn't perfect in British Columbia is just so trendy these days. Where were these people the past 6 years?
Alec Nov. 7, 2009, 5:35 p.m.
The time to protest the Olympics was when the bid was being put together.. that was your time to have a say. Now you and all the other protesters are just embarrassing yourselves in-front of the world.
Chill out, enjoy the games, and vote for someone else in the next election.
Alec Nov. 7, 2009, 5:35 p.m.
The time to protest the Olympics was when the bid was being put together.. that was your time to have a say. Now you and all the other protesters are just embarrassing yourselves in-front of the world.
Chill out, enjoy the games, and vote for someone else in the next election.
john Nov. 8, 2009, 11:44 p.m.
Alec, I am fairly certain all the protesters voted NDP anyway.
john Nov. 8, 2009, 11:44 p.m.
Alec, I am fairly certain all the protesters voted NDP anyway.
Shannon Nov. 10, 2009, 1:22 a.m.
I'd like to address several misconceptions I see being posted here.
1)Please do not assume that people have only just started protesting. People have been protesting, blockading, petitioning, holding education campaigns, and participating in an entire range of activities trying to expose the mismanagement of BC (fiscal and otherwise) surrounding the Olympics, since Vancouver first considered the bid. However, because of the way the (often VANOC-linked) corporate media works, many people did not hear of these efforts until this particular protest, simply because this one caused disruption of the relay itself.
2) Please don't tell us to sit back and enjoy the Games now that they're happening. People are actually dying because of them - social services are being cut, homeless populations are skyrocketing, and indigenous people are being pushed off their land - and we refuse to sit back end enjoy that. The only thing in our power to do is continue to raise a ruckus to expose what is going on. Maybe people will clue in, maybe government here or elsewhere will be hesitant to try similar shenanigans again because of the hassle we cause, or maybe corporations will be hesitant to sponsor future Olympics because their events are always disrupted. At the very least, we now have people talking about the impacts of the Olympics.
3) The Olympics ARE a corporate event. Anyone who watched the torch relay knows that large Coca Cola and RBC trucks and floats formed a far more significant part of the spectacle than the torch itself. Coca Cola is world-renowned for killing union leaders in third world countries, and stealing water from the aquifers of poor farmers. RBC is one of the largest investors in the tar sands, thereby causing more carbon emissions than several countries, and is funding the
greenest Olympics everwith some of the world's most carbon-dirty money. The Hudsons Bay Company primed Canada for the displacement of indigenous peoples through colonization, negotiated land deals in bad faith, and now has ripped off the Cowichan people by having knock-off sweaters made for official Games outfits. Other sponsors include Dow Chemical (supplied agent orange and napalm for use against the Vietnamese) and Birks (blood diamonds). These corporations get the only free speech allowed near Olympic venues, making one wonder how any of this fits into so-called Olympic ideals.4) The Olympics don't make money for cities, with the exception of LA, which already had most of its infrastructure in place. In every single recent Olympics homeless populations rose significantly because of developers capitalizing on high property rates turning affordable housing into condos, hotels, etc, and because of cuts to social services by the regions hosting the Games to offset the costs. The Olympics make money for the sponsors, but the impoverished people in the region certainly do not benefit. As for athletics being opened up to working-class people, in BC the Olympics have been accompanied by cuts to school athletic programs. I guess that shows where BC's priorities are.
5) The torch relay was invented to spread a loathsome ideology throughout Europe. A not-so different tactic continues today, with the torch run being used to spread nationalism and corporatism throughout Canada. It's too bad that the evenings of some middle-class torchbearers may have been spoiled by the demonstration, but it is a far greater tragedy that media attention is using these people to divert attention from the thousands of desperately poor people being marginalized and crushed by the Olympics, the people who truly deserve our support.
The reasons why we oppose the Olympics may be wordy or complex compared to the rosier smoke and mirrors of
Olympic spirit, but please make an effort to listen to us and get your facts straight before you slander us.Shannon Nov. 10, 2009, 1:22 a.m.
I'd like to address several misconceptions I see being posted here.
1)Please do not assume that people have only just started protesting. People have been protesting, blockading, petitioning, holding education campaigns, and participating in an entire range of activities trying to expose the mismanagement of BC (fiscal and otherwise) surrounding the Olympics, since Vancouver first considered the bid. However, because of the way the (often VANOC-linked) corporate media works, many people did not hear of these efforts until this particular protest, simply because this one caused disruption of the relay itself.
2) Please don't tell us to sit back and enjoy the Games now that they're happening. People are actually dying because of them - social services are being cut, homeless populations are skyrocketing, and indigenous people are being pushed off their land - and we refuse to sit back end enjoy that. The only thing in our power to do is continue to raise a ruckus to expose what is going on. Maybe people will clue in, maybe government here or elsewhere will be hesitant to try similar shenanigans again because of the hassle we cause, or maybe corporations will be hesitant to sponsor future Olympics because their events are always disrupted. At the very least, we now have people talking about the impacts of the Olympics.
3) The Olympics ARE a corporate event. Anyone who watched the torch relay knows that large Coca Cola and RBC trucks and floats formed a far more significant part of the spectacle than the torch itself. Coca Cola is world-renowned for killing union leaders in third world countries, and stealing water from the aquifers of poor farmers. RBC is one of the largest investors in the tar sands, thereby causing more carbon emissions than several countries, and is funding the
greenest Olympics everwith some of the world's most carbon-dirty money. The Hudsons Bay Company primed Canada for the displacement of indigenous peoples through colonization, negotiated land deals in bad faith, and now has ripped off the Cowichan people by having knock-off sweaters made for official Games outfits. Other sponsors include Dow Chemical (supplied agent orange and napalm for use against the Vietnamese) and Birks (blood diamonds). These corporations get the only free speech allowed near Olympic venues, making one wonder how any of this fits into so-called Olympic ideals.4) The Olympics don't make money for cities, with the exception of LA, which already had most of its infrastructure in place. In every single recent Olympics homeless populations rose significantly because of developers capitalizing on high property rates turning affordable housing into condos, hotels, etc, and because of cuts to social services by the regions hosting the Games to offset the costs. The Olympics make money for the sponsors, but the impoverished people in the region certainly do not benefit. As for athletics being opened up to working-class people, in BC the Olympics have been accompanied by cuts to school athletic programs. I guess that shows where BC's priorities are.
5) The torch relay was invented to spread a loathsome ideology throughout Europe. A not-so different tactic continues today, with the torch run being used to spread nationalism and corporatism throughout Canada. It's too bad that the evenings of some middle-class torchbearers may have been spoiled by the demonstration, but it is a far greater tragedy that media attention is using these people to divert attention from the thousands of desperately poor people being marginalized and crushed by the Olympics, the people who truly deserve our support.
The reasons why we oppose the Olympics may be wordy or complex compared to the rosier smoke and mirrors of
Olympic spirit, but please make an effort to listen to us and get your facts straight before you slander us.Britni Nov. 10, 2009, 10:09 a.m.
Hey Shannon, you got any sources on some of those homeless opinions? Calgary made money on the olympics. Why don't you address that? What about all the kids who wouldn't be able to afford to participate in sport in the Calgary area if it weren't for CODA, which was set up with money made from the Olympics.
Shannon, you are trying really hard to turn something positive into a cause to release your anger on.
Shannon, it takes a lot of effort to be angry the way you are, especially when you are trying to get blood from a stone the way you are.
Britni Nov. 10, 2009, 10:09 a.m.
Hey Shannon, you got any sources on some of those homeless opinions? Calgary made money on the olympics. Why don't you address that? What about all the kids who wouldn't be able to afford to participate in sport in the Calgary area if it weren't for CODA, which was set up with money made from the Olympics.
Shannon, you are trying really hard to turn something positive into a cause to release your anger on.
Shannon, it takes a lot of effort to be angry the way you are, especially when you are trying to get blood from a stone the way you are.
B Nov. 12, 2009, 6:54 p.m.
I'd be interested to know where Shannon got her statistics on the homeless as well. It sounds like a very specious argument to me.
B Nov. 12, 2009, 6:54 p.m.
I'd be interested to know where Shannon got her statistics on the homeless as well. It sounds like a very specious argument to me.
Shannon Nov. 15, 2009, 5:31 p.m.
Sure -
The Center on Housing Rights and Evictions in Geneva in 2007 released a three-year study proving negative impacts on low-income renters and homeless people in every Summer Olympic host city since 1988, including displacement, forced evictions, escalating housing costs, reduced availability of affordable housing, and criminalizing if homelessness.
Sociologist Helen Lenskyj (U of T), a preeminent scholar on sport and society, has also extensively documented the negative impacts of recent Olympics on homeless people.
Also check out the section of No2010 that archives news stories about the impacts of the Olympics on Vancouver's homeless: http://no2010.com/node/47
Shannon Nov. 15, 2009, 5:31 p.m.
Sure -
The Center on Housing Rights and Evictions in Geneva in 2007 released a three-year study proving negative impacts on low-income renters and homeless people in every Summer Olympic host city since 1988, including displacement, forced evictions, escalating housing costs, reduced availability of affordable housing, and criminalizing if homelessness.
Sociologist Helen Lenskyj (U of T), a preeminent scholar on sport and society, has also extensively documented the negative impacts of recent Olympics on homeless people.
Also check out the section of No2010 that archives news stories about the impacts of the Olympics on Vancouver's homeless: http://no2010.com/node/47
Sylvia Nov. 15, 2009, 6:49 p.m.
Thank you Shannon for your insightful defence of this opinion piece.
First and foremost, George, you asked for my numbers, where are yours? If you want to talk about corporate events, the Olympics are your game. Allow me to analyze some of the Olympic Charter (which is a binding agreement for any city that hosts the Olympics) See the Charter section 7 which reads:
Rights over the Olympic Games and Olympic properties* 1. The Olympic Games are the exclusive property of the IOC which owns all rights and data relating thereto, in particular, and without limitation, all rights relating to their organisation, exploitation, broadcasting, recording, representation, reproduction, access and dissemination in any form and by any means or mechanism whatsoever, whether now existing or developed in the future. The IOC shall determine the conditions of access to and the conditions of any use of data relating to the Olympic Games and to the competitions and sports performances of the Olympic Games.
Meaning, that in order to even MARKET anything with the word 'OLYMPIC' on it, you have to pay the IOC for the rights to it. Further, this means that in order to broadcast the Olympics, the IOC will have to license you. Not a corporate event? They have
The IOC along with VANOC have even gone so far as to patent the right to use words such as
Olympicsringsand2010amongst others. (The guy in Vancouver that owns a restaurant calledThe Olympicis in the middle of getting sued right now for using that name). Meaning, I could be sued for even having this editorial printed, because I didn't pay the IOC to use the wordOlympics. If you want to read more on this, Dr. Helen Lenskyj is a good place to start, you can find her at the UVic library. Dr. Christopher Shaw has a book out specifically on the 2010 Olympics called 5 ring circus. Check it out. I have a copy if you want to borrow it. He does some pretty significant number crunching. Let me know which ones you want, and I will be happy to give them to you. You can email me at smn@uvic.caSecond, Shannon is right about the COHRE reports. (www.cohre.org) Check them out with regards to homelessness, displacement and the money making myth. How are we supposed to actually know if we are making money on the Olympics when VANOC will not let their accounting be audited? Or, that in the Olympic charter (18: 1,2.6, 2.7 respectively) it explicitly states
The Session is the general meeting of the members of the IOC. It is the IOC’s supreme organ. Its decisions are final.and then goes on to state:To approve the annual report and accounts of the IOC.and,To appoint the IOC’s auditors.So, this means, they get to appoint their OWN auditors, not exactly transparent.Not only that, but they have been granted tax-free status both in the countries that host the Olympics, and where they are based in Switzerland. I can provide you with the legislation from the Canadian government should you want it. Any large business would love to have those advantages, I'm sure.
As per 1988, I have yet to find numbers on them actually making money. If you have them, I would love to see them. The whole thing seems pretty shrouded in mystery -especially since the IOC and local organizing committees can cook the books (as they quite literally did in Seoul). 1976 in Montreal certainly did not make money. I believe I have a source somewhere that looks at Calgary in detail, but I don't want to make any claims without taking another look at it. If you want those numbers, I would be happy to look and reply to you.
Third, I never said that I didn't want police presence at a big event. You put those words into my mouth. Of course I do, I actually think that the original numbers of 176 million that were provided to the public for the cost of policing the games is absurdly low, and that with our military already stretched in Afghanistan, we do not have the capacities to properly police the Games. This original number is an outright lie to the public. If you read the article, I actually commended them on their work, but I do hold that if they are going to harass people that are peacefully protesting, they are not serving our interests. Nor do I think it was reasonable to have the same amount of police as protesters. That, as I have said, is a waste of our money.
I agree with Shannon with regards to why I would include the beginnings of the torch relay. Simply to point out that maybe we need to re-think all the nationalist rhetoric that gets caught up in events such as the torch relay so as to somehow make them immune from political commentary.
Finally, for the whole 'enjoy yourself' comment, I love to enjoy myself and party, but I don't need millions (if not billions) of dollars of other people's money to throw a party and have a good time.
Sylvia Nov. 15, 2009, 6:49 p.m.
Thank you Shannon for your insightful defence of this opinion piece.
First and foremost, George, you asked for my numbers, where are yours? If you want to talk about corporate events, the Olympics are your game. Allow me to analyze some of the Olympic Charter (which is a binding agreement for any city that hosts the Olympics) See the Charter section 7 which reads:
Rights over the Olympic Games and Olympic properties* 1. The Olympic Games are the exclusive property of the IOC which owns all rights and data relating thereto, in particular, and without limitation, all rights relating to their organisation, exploitation, broadcasting, recording, representation, reproduction, access and dissemination in any form and by any means or mechanism whatsoever, whether now existing or developed in the future. The IOC shall determine the conditions of access to and the conditions of any use of data relating to the Olympic Games and to the competitions and sports performances of the Olympic Games.
Meaning, that in order to even MARKET anything with the word 'OLYMPIC' on it, you have to pay the IOC for the rights to it. Further, this means that in order to broadcast the Olympics, the IOC will have to license you. Not a corporate event? They have
The IOC along with VANOC have even gone so far as to patent the right to use words such as
Olympicsringsand2010amongst others. (The guy in Vancouver that owns a restaurant calledThe Olympicis in the middle of getting sued right now for using that name). Meaning, I could be sued for even having this editorial printed, because I didn't pay the IOC to use the wordOlympics. If you want to read more on this, Dr. Helen Lenskyj is a good place to start, you can find her at the UVic library. Dr. Christopher Shaw has a book out specifically on the 2010 Olympics called 5 ring circus. Check it out. I have a copy if you want to borrow it. He does some pretty significant number crunching. Let me know which ones you want, and I will be happy to give them to you. You can email me at smn@uvic.caSecond, Shannon is right about the COHRE reports. (www.cohre.org) Check them out with regards to homelessness, displacement and the money making myth. How are we supposed to actually know if we are making money on the Olympics when VANOC will not let their accounting be audited? Or, that in the Olympic charter (18: 1,2.6, 2.7 respectively) it explicitly states
The Session is the general meeting of the members of the IOC. It is the IOC’s supreme organ. Its decisions are final.and then goes on to state:To approve the annual report and accounts of the IOC.and,To appoint the IOC’s auditors.So, this means, they get to appoint their OWN auditors, not exactly transparent.Not only that, but they have been granted tax-free status both in the countries that host the Olympics, and where they are based in Switzerland. I can provide you with the legislation from the Canadian government should you want it. Any large business would love to have those advantages, I'm sure.
As per 1988, I have yet to find numbers on them actually making money. If you have them, I would love to see them. The whole thing seems pretty shrouded in mystery -especially since the IOC and local organizing committees can cook the books (as they quite literally did in Seoul). 1976 in Montreal certainly did not make money. I believe I have a source somewhere that looks at Calgary in detail, but I don't want to make any claims without taking another look at it. If you want those numbers, I would be happy to look and reply to you.
Third, I never said that I didn't want police presence at a big event. You put those words into my mouth. Of course I do, I actually think that the original numbers of 176 million that were provided to the public for the cost of policing the games is absurdly low, and that with our military already stretched in Afghanistan, we do not have the capacities to properly police the Games. This original number is an outright lie to the public. If you read the article, I actually commended them on their work, but I do hold that if they are going to harass people that are peacefully protesting, they are not serving our interests. Nor do I think it was reasonable to have the same amount of police as protesters. That, as I have said, is a waste of our money.
I agree with Shannon with regards to why I would include the beginnings of the torch relay. Simply to point out that maybe we need to re-think all the nationalist rhetoric that gets caught up in events such as the torch relay so as to somehow make them immune from political commentary.
Finally, for the whole 'enjoy yourself' comment, I love to enjoy myself and party, but I don't need millions (if not billions) of dollars of other people's money to throw a party and have a good time.
George Nov. 16, 2009, 10:54 a.m.
Sylvia, give me a break. Any reasonable organization would want to control access to their brand, and name. There is nothing
Corporateabout that, per your definition of corporate. Of course a TV station would have to pay to broadcast the Olympics. The TV stations make a lot of money off broadcasting the Olympics. That is why they do it. The reality still remains the same, despite your ability to recognize it. The Olympics are the least commercialized international sporting event. Watch the world championships of any sport, and you will see advertisements crammed into every square inch of available space, including all over the ice of a hockey game, or figure skating. At the Olympics, there isn't a single advertisement on the ice, or anywhere else in the venues for that matter.Sylvia, its exasperating responding to some of your comments. You can't be sued for writing an opinion piece, or an article that has a registered, or trade marked word in it. Otherwise it would be impossible to talk about almost anything, not just the Olympics, without infringing on someones trade mark, or brand.
Sylvia, any non profit, or charity, or any organization in the world operates on the same principals as the IOC. You are citing parts of the IOC rules and regulation like they are bad, when they are completely NORMAL! Every organization chooses their own auditor. Otherwise, who else is supposed to do it?
The IOC is non-profit. That is why they are tax free. No individual is getting rich off sitting on the IOC board of directors.
You probably can't find any information about Calgary making money off the olympics because you are only looking through crazy left wing radical papers.
As for Montreal. They screwed up the Olympics, and paid for it. Big news. Governments screw up all the time. Just like when the BC government built then sold the fast cat ferries.
I love how you have absolutely no knowledge or experience regarding police costs, or security, but you feel completely qualified to decide that the experts deciding how much security is needed, and how much it will cost are wrong. They wouldn't use the military to police the Olympics anyway.
Do you have a problem with a community event that brings people of a community together for a day?
The whole billion dollar party thing is ridiculous. The subway, and skytrain, and speed skating oval and sea to sky highway will still be around after the olympics are over.
George Nov. 16, 2009, 10:54 a.m.
Sylvia, give me a break. Any reasonable organization would want to control access to their brand, and name. There is nothing
Corporateabout that, per your definition of corporate. Of course a TV station would have to pay to broadcast the Olympics. The TV stations make a lot of money off broadcasting the Olympics. That is why they do it. The reality still remains the same, despite your ability to recognize it. The Olympics are the least commercialized international sporting event. Watch the world championships of any sport, and you will see advertisements crammed into every square inch of available space, including all over the ice of a hockey game, or figure skating. At the Olympics, there isn't a single advertisement on the ice, or anywhere else in the venues for that matter.Sylvia, its exasperating responding to some of your comments. You can't be sued for writing an opinion piece, or an article that has a registered, or trade marked word in it. Otherwise it would be impossible to talk about almost anything, not just the Olympics, without infringing on someones trade mark, or brand.
Sylvia, any non profit, or charity, or any organization in the world operates on the same principals as the IOC. You are citing parts of the IOC rules and regulation like they are bad, when they are completely NORMAL! Every organization chooses their own auditor. Otherwise, who else is supposed to do it?
The IOC is non-profit. That is why they are tax free. No individual is getting rich off sitting on the IOC board of directors.
You probably can't find any information about Calgary making money off the olympics because you are only looking through crazy left wing radical papers.
As for Montreal. They screwed up the Olympics, and paid for it. Big news. Governments screw up all the time. Just like when the BC government built then sold the fast cat ferries.
I love how you have absolutely no knowledge or experience regarding police costs, or security, but you feel completely qualified to decide that the experts deciding how much security is needed, and how much it will cost are wrong. They wouldn't use the military to police the Olympics anyway.
Do you have a problem with a community event that brings people of a community together for a day?
The whole billion dollar party thing is ridiculous. The subway, and skytrain, and speed skating oval and sea to sky highway will still be around after the olympics are over.
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 1:42 p.m.
George,
I am only going to say two things in reply because I don't want to post my whole thesis on here (where I have done interviews with members of the organizing bid committee in Vancouver, with Christopher Shaw, and with others involved in VANOC).
1) You are doing the same thing that you claim I am doing, which is not taking a moment to look at the sources I pointed to in my post. I have given you my email, and even offered to give you a book. Take me up on it. I can provide with with numbers that the so-called 'non-profit' IOC made last year. (again easily found sources: www.cohre.org; Helen Lenskyj at the UVic library; and I am more than willing to lend you Dr. Shaw's book)
2) They are already training the military to police the Olympics. Perhaps you should look into it before making those claims. I had a student have to take time away from school to go be trained up at Whistler for the Olympics: he is in the military. Furthermore, I DO know about police costs because my uncle is in the RCMP in Ottawa, and we have talked at length about this. I am bound by confidentiality and anonymity to say much more than that. Take it or leave it.
You are not the only one who is exasperated here George. Do some research if you are so sure that your claims are true.
And no, I don't have a problem with a community celebration. I think I made that pretty clear in what I wrote. I have a problem with outright dishonesty about how much of MY tax money is being spent on a two week party.
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 1:42 p.m.
George,
I am only going to say two things in reply because I don't want to post my whole thesis on here (where I have done interviews with members of the organizing bid committee in Vancouver, with Christopher Shaw, and with others involved in VANOC).
1) You are doing the same thing that you claim I am doing, which is not taking a moment to look at the sources I pointed to in my post. I have given you my email, and even offered to give you a book. Take me up on it. I can provide with with numbers that the so-called 'non-profit' IOC made last year. (again easily found sources: www.cohre.org; Helen Lenskyj at the UVic library; and I am more than willing to lend you Dr. Shaw's book)
2) They are already training the military to police the Olympics. Perhaps you should look into it before making those claims. I had a student have to take time away from school to go be trained up at Whistler for the Olympics: he is in the military. Furthermore, I DO know about police costs because my uncle is in the RCMP in Ottawa, and we have talked at length about this. I am bound by confidentiality and anonymity to say much more than that. Take it or leave it.
You are not the only one who is exasperated here George. Do some research if you are so sure that your claims are true.
And no, I don't have a problem with a community celebration. I think I made that pretty clear in what I wrote. I have a problem with outright dishonesty about how much of MY tax money is being spent on a two week party.
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 1:55 p.m.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying any of this to try and make a claim that I am revealing something new or uncovering some great secret. The IOC has put this out as a matter of public knowledge. It's just that people don't bother to do the research before buying into the whole 'Olympic spirit'. I myself was a skeptic until I took the last 2 years of my life to actually look into this stuff.
Further from the Olympic charter: (www.olympic.org/Documents/olympic_charter_en.pdf)
Rule 25 IOC Resources 1. The IOC may accept gifts and bequests and seek all other resources enabling it to fulfill its tasks. It collects revenues from the exploitation of any of its rights, including but not limited to television rights, sponsorships, licences and Olympic properties as well as from the celebration of the Olympic Games.
(To clarify: The IOC (it) COLLECTS REVENUES from the exploitation of its rights. Yes, rights to television broadcasting. I think that might be profitable)
Rule 47, by-law 1: To select judges, referees and other technical officials from the host country and from abroad within the total number adopted by the IOC Executive Board upon proposal of the IF concerned. The expenses for accommodation, transport and uniforms of such judges, referees and other technical officials coming from countries other than the host country shall be paid by the OCOG. The technical officials must be present at the site at least three days prior to the first event in their sport and at least one day after the last event.
1.5.1 The two technical delegates from each IF must be present at the site at least five days prior to the start of the first event in their sport, in order to make all necessary arrangements regarding entries.
1.5.2 The reasonable expenses of such delegates during such period and until the Olympic Games are over (BUSINESS class air fares if the journey exceeds 2,500 km or economy class if the journey does not exceed 2,500 km, board and lodging) are to be paid by the OCOG.
*OCOG = Organizing Committee of the Olympic Games (in our case, VANOC)
So this means that OUR tax dollars from the provincial and federal governments that were given to VANOC to put on the Games are (in part) being used to fund judges to fly business class. That is only one small example of what might be perhaps a reckless use of our money.
Read the Charter, its all there.
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 1:55 p.m.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying any of this to try and make a claim that I am revealing something new or uncovering some great secret. The IOC has put this out as a matter of public knowledge. It's just that people don't bother to do the research before buying into the whole 'Olympic spirit'. I myself was a skeptic until I took the last 2 years of my life to actually look into this stuff.
Further from the Olympic charter: (www.olympic.org/Documents/olympic_charter_en.pdf)
Rule 25 IOC Resources 1. The IOC may accept gifts and bequests and seek all other resources enabling it to fulfill its tasks. It collects revenues from the exploitation of any of its rights, including but not limited to television rights, sponsorships, licences and Olympic properties as well as from the celebration of the Olympic Games.
(To clarify: The IOC (it) COLLECTS REVENUES from the exploitation of its rights. Yes, rights to television broadcasting. I think that might be profitable)
Rule 47, by-law 1: To select judges, referees and other technical officials from the host country and from abroad within the total number adopted by the IOC Executive Board upon proposal of the IF concerned. The expenses for accommodation, transport and uniforms of such judges, referees and other technical officials coming from countries other than the host country shall be paid by the OCOG. The technical officials must be present at the site at least three days prior to the first event in their sport and at least one day after the last event.
1.5.1 The two technical delegates from each IF must be present at the site at least five days prior to the start of the first event in their sport, in order to make all necessary arrangements regarding entries.
1.5.2 The reasonable expenses of such delegates during such period and until the Olympic Games are over (BUSINESS class air fares if the journey exceeds 2,500 km or economy class if the journey does not exceed 2,500 km, board and lodging) are to be paid by the OCOG.
*OCOG = Organizing Committee of the Olympic Games (in our case, VANOC)
So this means that OUR tax dollars from the provincial and federal governments that were given to VANOC to put on the Games are (in part) being used to fund judges to fly business class. That is only one small example of what might be perhaps a reckless use of our money.
Read the Charter, its all there.
George Nov. 16, 2009, 3:44 p.m.
None of that sounds bad to me. I think you are reading way to far into the charter. None of that is unusual. Try reading the charter for other large non profits, and charities. They will say similar legal speak.
I think it is clear that you are so invested in finding something evil about the Olympics that you are completely unwilling to see any part of the IOC, or Olympics for what it is.
Case in point, you continue to call the entire expenditure of the Olympics a party, when you know as well as anyone else that the facilities and infrastructure that has been built will still exist after the Olympics are long over.
George Nov. 16, 2009, 3:44 p.m.
None of that sounds bad to me. I think you are reading way to far into the charter. None of that is unusual. Try reading the charter for other large non profits, and charities. They will say similar legal speak.
I think it is clear that you are so invested in finding something evil about the Olympics that you are completely unwilling to see any part of the IOC, or Olympics for what it is.
Case in point, you continue to call the entire expenditure of the Olympics a party, when you know as well as anyone else that the facilities and infrastructure that has been built will still exist after the Olympics are long over.
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 4:55 p.m.
I have said this, and I will say it again, I am not interested in vilifying anything. That gets us no where. But I am interested in having an open mind as to what may occur when a mega-event that my tax dollars are paying for comes to my city and country. All I can say to that point is to open YOUR mind, and take a look at the sources that I have pointed to. I will state again that I am more than happy to look at anything you would like me to read. Again, you can contact me at smn@uvic.ca. I would love to even meet for coffee to discuss this more.
I can see that the infrastructure will be there long after the Olympics are over. That's great. Most of these things were long needed in B.C.
You should note that I did write that it is my opinion that the government should be investing in infrastructure (such as sports facilities, transportation infrastructure, highway improvements, etc.) REGARDLESS of whether we are having a mega-event or not. I am not entirely sure why we need to have a mega-event to kickstart our government into investing in these types of things. I think that is extremely problematic and shows that maybe priorities need to be reassessed.
And this is one of my main points, and has been all along, is that these priorities are screwed up, and that this needs to be recognized when we give our elected officials permission to spend lots of our money (as I pointed out, on business class airfares for sports officials, for example).
More importantly, and perhaps you did not see this, my reason for writing was to challenge people to assess the Olympics much like any other government spending project, as having political aspects and implications. This gets clouded over and forgotten pretty quickly.
Finally, as far as non-profits go, you may well be right. However, I cannot think of a non-profit organization that has the same amount of power to convince cities (and countries) to spend that much money as the IOC does. That makes a big difference. If the Sierra Club got the same amount of money from the government as VANOC and the IOC have, maybe my viewpoint would be a bit different. But I don't see this happening any time soon.
Again, I encourage you to take me up on my offers. I am more than willing to enter into a healthy debate about this without vilifying either side, I think I made it pretty clear that I can see the positive aspects of the Games.
I would like to take you up further on your contention that the Games are the least corporate of all major sporting events, but quite honestly I don't have the time to right this moment. I would be more than happy to put together a more extensive argument about why I think they are corporate, and how my research supports this, because I see huge problems with your contention that appearances signal that the Olympics are NOT corporate, there is much more behind the Olympic label then what you seem to recognize. Again, feel free to email me and I could do that for you with some time.
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 4:55 p.m.
I have said this, and I will say it again, I am not interested in vilifying anything. That gets us no where. But I am interested in having an open mind as to what may occur when a mega-event that my tax dollars are paying for comes to my city and country. All I can say to that point is to open YOUR mind, and take a look at the sources that I have pointed to. I will state again that I am more than happy to look at anything you would like me to read. Again, you can contact me at smn@uvic.ca. I would love to even meet for coffee to discuss this more.
I can see that the infrastructure will be there long after the Olympics are over. That's great. Most of these things were long needed in B.C.
You should note that I did write that it is my opinion that the government should be investing in infrastructure (such as sports facilities, transportation infrastructure, highway improvements, etc.) REGARDLESS of whether we are having a mega-event or not. I am not entirely sure why we need to have a mega-event to kickstart our government into investing in these types of things. I think that is extremely problematic and shows that maybe priorities need to be reassessed.
And this is one of my main points, and has been all along, is that these priorities are screwed up, and that this needs to be recognized when we give our elected officials permission to spend lots of our money (as I pointed out, on business class airfares for sports officials, for example).
More importantly, and perhaps you did not see this, my reason for writing was to challenge people to assess the Olympics much like any other government spending project, as having political aspects and implications. This gets clouded over and forgotten pretty quickly.
Finally, as far as non-profits go, you may well be right. However, I cannot think of a non-profit organization that has the same amount of power to convince cities (and countries) to spend that much money as the IOC does. That makes a big difference. If the Sierra Club got the same amount of money from the government as VANOC and the IOC have, maybe my viewpoint would be a bit different. But I don't see this happening any time soon.
Again, I encourage you to take me up on my offers. I am more than willing to enter into a healthy debate about this without vilifying either side, I think I made it pretty clear that I can see the positive aspects of the Games.
I would like to take you up further on your contention that the Games are the least corporate of all major sporting events, but quite honestly I don't have the time to right this moment. I would be more than happy to put together a more extensive argument about why I think they are corporate, and how my research supports this, because I see huge problems with your contention that appearances signal that the Olympics are NOT corporate, there is much more behind the Olympic label then what you seem to recognize. Again, feel free to email me and I could do that for you with some time.
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 7:43 p.m.
After more consideration, I have to admit I am wrong about the Olympics. I just spent some time actually on the IOC website, and it is quite a different organization than I originally thought.
George, I am sorry. You are right. I would still like to meet up for lunch or dinner maybe. Send me an email...
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 7:43 p.m.
After more consideration, I have to admit I am wrong about the Olympics. I just spent some time actually on the IOC website, and it is quite a different organization than I originally thought.
George, I am sorry. You are right. I would still like to meet up for lunch or dinner maybe. Send me an email...
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 10:28 p.m.
Wow.
That's really mature. It's too bad that people can't handle this topic in a mature manner. Anyone who is following the debate should know that the above post was NOT ME...I was talking about the IOC charter, not the site anyways.
Martlet, if you could remove that (check the emails that you require, I am sure they don't match) I would appreciate it.
To who ever posted that. GROW UP!
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 10:28 p.m.
Wow.
That's really mature. It's too bad that people can't handle this topic in a mature manner. Anyone who is following the debate should know that the above post was NOT ME...I was talking about the IOC charter, not the site anyways.
Martlet, if you could remove that (check the emails that you require, I am sure they don't match) I would appreciate it.
To who ever posted that. GROW UP!
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 10:33 p.m.
Since you people can't engage in a meaningful debate about this without stooping to petty mimicry, I have no interest in continuing this conversation on here. One of my emails has been posted on my ACTUAL posts, so if you want to keep this conversation going, feel free to use it.
I will not be checking this.
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 10:33 p.m.
Since you people can't engage in a meaningful debate about this without stooping to petty mimicry, I have no interest in continuing this conversation on here. One of my emails has been posted on my ACTUAL posts, so if you want to keep this conversation going, feel free to use it.
I will not be checking this.
Janet Nov. 16, 2009, 10:35 p.m.
I am going to be honest - I didn't bother to read the millions of comments above, but I wanted to respond to one of Sylvia's posts.
Just because a non-profit organization brings in revenue/makes a profit, doesn't make it a for-profit organization. All organizations need revenue, otherwise they couldn't exist. The IOC is using that revenue to make the Olympics happen. I don't see anything wrong with that.
The Olympics are surprisingly non-corporate when it comes to sporting events. The athletes represent their country, not their corporate sponsor or professional team. And you hardly ever see any corporate ads at the venues.
Janet Nov. 16, 2009, 10:35 p.m.
I am going to be honest - I didn't bother to read the millions of comments above, but I wanted to respond to one of Sylvia's posts.
Just because a non-profit organization brings in revenue/makes a profit, doesn't make it a for-profit organization. All organizations need revenue, otherwise they couldn't exist. The IOC is using that revenue to make the Olympics happen. I don't see anything wrong with that.
The Olympics are surprisingly non-corporate when it comes to sporting events. The athletes represent their country, not their corporate sponsor or professional team. And you hardly ever see any corporate ads at the venues.
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 10:36 p.m.
Hey! who is pretending to be me in the above post?? Not the one where I agree that George is right, the crazy one right above this one.
If you have read my posts above, you would know that I am far more reasonable than the above post would make me seem.
Honestly, I take offense to someone getting upset or something with me changing my mind, and trying to make it seem like I didn't agree with George.
Martlet, if you don't believe, check the email address I used, its smn@uvic.ca, which is the same email address I submitted the article with, and the same email address I wrote all my posts with!
Please delete that post above this!!
Thank you, and to whoever is impersonating me, please stop it. I agree with George, I changed my mind. Learn to open your mind to other peoples opinions as well, maybe you will learn something.
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 10:36 p.m.
Hey! who is pretending to be me in the above post?? Not the one where I agree that George is right, the crazy one right above this one.
If you have read my posts above, you would know that I am far more reasonable than the above post would make me seem.
Honestly, I take offense to someone getting upset or something with me changing my mind, and trying to make it seem like I didn't agree with George.
Martlet, if you don't believe, check the email address I used, its smn@uvic.ca, which is the same email address I submitted the article with, and the same email address I wrote all my posts with!
Please delete that post above this!!
Thank you, and to whoever is impersonating me, please stop it. I agree with George, I changed my mind. Learn to open your mind to other peoples opinions as well, maybe you will learn something.
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 10:44 p.m.
Ahhhh!!!! That person posted again!!! Look, this is me! I don't know who posted above Janet the two times, but it was not me!!
Sylvia Nov. 16, 2009, 10:44 p.m.
Ahhhh!!!! That person posted again!!! Look, this is me! I don't know who posted above Janet the two times, but it was not me!!