Petition not the right approach
You may have recently been approached with a petition asking for a referendum to question UVic’s membership in the Canadian Federation of Students (CFS). Before you sign, there are some things you should know about our association with the CFS.
The CFS-BC is the provincial framework which brings student unions from every corner of our province together. It is our formal relationship with other students, from Cranbrook to Prince George to Nanaimo and all places in between.
Membership has allowed UVic undergrads to work together with hundreds of thousands of students across the country since 1985. Issues tackled include the availability of transit, soaring tuition fees and funding for post-secondary institutions.
The student movement has a successful history of realizing and accomplishing goals. Students can achieve great victories through support and mass mobilization. For example, this fall the federal government introduced a new $400 million student grant after pressure by our student movement from coast to coast.
A province-wide framework for advocacy is not unique to students. Unity of purpose allows other constituencies on campus, such as professors, cafeteria workers, secretaries and groundskeepers, to initiate change through this same resourceful and efficient model. Even university presidents are united provincially to lobby the government.
If you are not satisfied with the campaigns or policies of the CFS, there are a myriad of democratic opportunities to propose changes without withdrawing from the federation. The CFS-BC has two general meetings a year to do exactly that. Also, UVic has a permanent seat on the CFS-BC board of directors, which meets regularly throughout the year and allow concerns from each local to be raised.
The CFS exists to provide students with the opportunity to be a part of a movement which caters to their concerns. If members are dissatisfied with the federation, they are encouraged to explore the above mentioned democratic channels as well as meet with the CFS-BC representative for UVic.
A strong, united student movement is the ultimate goal of the CFS and its provincial components; this can only be done with your support.
Veronica Harrison is the current UVSS Chairperson and Rajpreet Sall is a UVSS Director at Large and UVic undergraduate students’ representative on the CFS-BC Board of Directors.
70 Comments
The Martlet has an open comments policy and will endeavour to promote healthy discussion. We strive to act as an agent of constructive social change and will remove racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise oppressive comments.
Leave a Comment
Sam Reynolds Oct. 8, 2009, 12:14 a.m.
What a moronic article. The CFS is systematically corrupt organization which has no mandate now except to protect themselves. Of course UVic Should defederate, the students money would be spent better elsewhere. It could say at Uvic instead of going to social lobbying issues, or fight lawsuits against enemies of the CFS.
Sam Reynolds Oct. 8, 2009, 12:14 a.m.
What a moronic article. The CFS is systematically corrupt organization which has no mandate now except to protect themselves. Of course UVic Should defederate, the students money would be spent better elsewhere. It could say at Uvic instead of going to social lobbying issues, or fight lawsuits against enemies of the CFS.
Jim B Oct. 8, 2009, 12:20 a.m.
You'll notice that
Samdoesn't deal substantively with any of the points raised by Veronica and Rajpreet.Jim B Oct. 8, 2009, 12:20 a.m.
You'll notice that
Samdoesn't deal substantively with any of the points raised by Veronica and Rajpreet.José Barrios Oct. 8, 2009, 12:48 a.m.
How is asking students if they want to conduct a REFERENDUM with regards to the membership not the right approach? The petition is not a vote to defederate, its a vote to open the debate between the people that seem the CFS as an effective group and the ones that see it as an ineffective. How is an open debate with two sides a 'wrong' approach?
Students voted to be a part of the CFS at UVic more than two DECADES ago, it's time to ask the students at UVic this year (all of which weren't around when the decision was made for them) if they want to remain to be a part of it. That is a true democratic process. Inhibiting the referendum is as a matter of fact suppressing an accountability mechanism that is there to open a democratic debate.
José Barrios Oct. 8, 2009, 12:48 a.m.
How is asking students if they want to conduct a REFERENDUM with regards to the membership not the right approach? The petition is not a vote to defederate, its a vote to open the debate between the people that seem the CFS as an effective group and the ones that see it as an ineffective. How is an open debate with two sides a 'wrong' approach?
Students voted to be a part of the CFS at UVic more than two DECADES ago, it's time to ask the students at UVic this year (all of which weren't around when the decision was made for them) if they want to remain to be a part of it. That is a true democratic process. Inhibiting the referendum is as a matter of fact suppressing an accountability mechanism that is there to open a democratic debate.
Geoff Oct. 8, 2009, 1:03 a.m.
Before you sign, there are some things you should know about our association with the CFS.This is exactly why it's important to hold a referendum. Students are currently hearing one side of the story; it's extemly difficult to have a democratic discussion when the CFS uses our fee's to advertise to its OWN members. This referendum gives students their democratic right to hear both sides of the story and make an informed decision.
You think that an organization that prides itself on a
myriad of democratic opportunitieswould welcome an free and fair democratic election...Geoff Oct. 8, 2009, 1:03 a.m.
Before you sign, there are some things you should know about our association with the CFS.This is exactly why it's important to hold a referendum. Students are currently hearing one side of the story; it's extemly difficult to have a democratic discussion when the CFS uses our fee's to advertise to its OWN members. This referendum gives students their democratic right to hear both sides of the story and make an informed decision.
You think that an organization that prides itself on a
myriad of democratic opportunitieswould welcome an free and fair democratic election...Jim B Oct. 8, 2009, 1:05 a.m.
I think that this article does a good job of talking about why a costly referendum is the wrong approach. I recommend reading it. For starters, have any of the petitioners used the existing channels to make the CFS-BC more
effective? Rajpreet and Veronica have made a clear case that there are existingaccountability mechanismsthat you have deliberately ignored, and I don't want my fees going to a costly referendum until we've exhausted the means available to us.Jim B Oct. 8, 2009, 1:05 a.m.
I think that this article does a good job of talking about why a costly referendum is the wrong approach. I recommend reading it. For starters, have any of the petitioners used the existing channels to make the CFS-BC more
effective? Rajpreet and Veronica have made a clear case that there are existingaccountability mechanismsthat you have deliberately ignored, and I don't want my fees going to a costly referendum until we've exhausted the means available to us.Jim B Oct. 8, 2009, 1:08 a.m.
Under Geoff's logic, we should have a referendum every month. The UVSS's point is that a referendum is drastic, and we should use less costly and extreme methods to have our voices heard.
Jim B Oct. 8, 2009, 1:08 a.m.
Under Geoff's logic, we should have a referendum every month. The UVSS's point is that a referendum is drastic, and we should use less costly and extreme methods to have our voices heard.
Geoff Oct. 8, 2009, 1:22 a.m.
20 years is a long time to do anything. By your logic we should continue on the same path forever. I for one welcome change and debate.
Costs are inconsequential when we are talking about our inalienable democratic rights. You don't put a price on voting, so therefor costs shouldnt matter in starting and pursuing a democratic debate and vote.
Geoff Oct. 8, 2009, 1:22 a.m.
20 years is a long time to do anything. By your logic we should continue on the same path forever. I for one welcome change and debate.
Costs are inconsequential when we are talking about our inalienable democratic rights. You don't put a price on voting, so therefor costs shouldnt matter in starting and pursuing a democratic debate and vote.
Jeff Oct. 8, 2009, 1:32 a.m.
This is a perfect example of how top down this organization is. Read it closely and you'll notice it's a standard CFS press release, neither Veronica or Rajpreet wrote it and that's a fact.
Jeff Oct. 8, 2009, 1:32 a.m.
This is a perfect example of how top down this organization is. Read it closely and you'll notice it's a standard CFS press release, neither Veronica or Rajpreet wrote it and that's a fact.
José Barrios Oct. 8, 2009, 1:35 a.m.
Funny you bring the 'democratic' channels up Jim because I actually have tried, numerous times. There is a small flaw with the process you deem democratic. People who want to attend the CFS AGM to voice their opinions have to be approved by the board. At the same time the board members also want to attend the AGM and fly out all expenses paid to the conference so it is always board members voting for themselves while the students that are looking to reform the CFS are left behind. That approach does not work, I attempted to go to the CFS meeting numerous times and every single time board members were voted (by the board members) to assist the conference.
José Barrios Oct. 8, 2009, 1:35 a.m.
Funny you bring the 'democratic' channels up Jim because I actually have tried, numerous times. There is a small flaw with the process you deem democratic. People who want to attend the CFS AGM to voice their opinions have to be approved by the board. At the same time the board members also want to attend the AGM and fly out all expenses paid to the conference so it is always board members voting for themselves while the students that are looking to reform the CFS are left behind. That approach does not work, I attempted to go to the CFS meeting numerous times and every single time board members were voted (by the board members) to assist the conference.
Jeff Oct. 8, 2009, 1:42 a.m.
To further Jose's comments, the CFS actively involves itself in the elections of friendly slates in student union elections to ENSURE that those who have a chance to change the organization fail.
This is no conspiracy theory, former volunteers came forward with this:
http://www.sfu.ca/~tgregory/cfs_is_broken.pdf
Jeff Oct. 8, 2009, 1:42 a.m.
To further Jose's comments, the CFS actively involves itself in the elections of friendly slates in student union elections to ENSURE that those who have a chance to change the organization fail.
This is no conspiracy theory, former volunteers came forward with this:
http://www.sfu.ca/~tgregory/cfs_is_broken.pdf
Matt Oct. 8, 2009, 1:47 a.m.
Rajpreet and Veronica criticize the referendum as costly but fail to note that students have to pay over $200,000 a year to the CFS and get little in return. Why are we sending this money to Ottawa when we could be spending it locally? Imagine what services we could offer to students with that money.
Matt Oct. 8, 2009, 1:47 a.m.
Rajpreet and Veronica criticize the referendum as costly but fail to note that students have to pay over $200,000 a year to the CFS and get little in return. Why are we sending this money to Ottawa when we could be spending it locally? Imagine what services we could offer to students with that money.
Jim B Oct. 8, 2009, 2:40 a.m.
BC hasn't voted on confederation in decades, that doesn't mean we're due for a referendum on Canada. Instead, we elect local politicians to do our bidding in Ottawa. Nobody on this growing comment board has articulated how they have (or haven't) used our local representatives to do our bidding (although we did learn that Jose can't get elected). Instead of questioning confederation, let's use our democratically elected reps first. Otherwise, we sound like Jacques Parizeau.
Jim B Oct. 8, 2009, 2:40 a.m.
BC hasn't voted on confederation in decades, that doesn't mean we're due for a referendum on Canada. Instead, we elect local politicians to do our bidding in Ottawa. Nobody on this growing comment board has articulated how they have (or haven't) used our local representatives to do our bidding (although we did learn that Jose can't get elected). Instead of questioning confederation, let's use our democratically elected reps first. Otherwise, we sound like Jacques Parizeau.
Jeff Oct. 8, 2009, 3:37 a.m.
Jim you're ignoring all the blatant problems with this organization instead to favour going for simple attacks.
You're ignoring their open corruption, their open interference into the politics of student unions, their terrible unsuccessful lobbying and their use of litigation to silence those who criticise their organization.
The anti-CFS movement is a coalition of people from all across the political spectrum united against the deceitful practices of this
grassrootsorganization.Jeff Oct. 8, 2009, 3:37 a.m.
Jim you're ignoring all the blatant problems with this organization instead to favour going for simple attacks.
You're ignoring their open corruption, their open interference into the politics of student unions, their terrible unsuccessful lobbying and their use of litigation to silence those who criticise their organization.
The anti-CFS movement is a coalition of people from all across the political spectrum united against the deceitful practices of this
grassrootsorganization.Sheldon Oct. 8, 2009, 4:01 a.m.
Jim is right on one thing; we elect our local politicians to represent us municipally, provincially, and federally. As UVic undergraduate students we elect our UVSS Board of Directors too. Unfortunately our UVSS Board of Directors have not been representing our interests, rather the interests of the CFS elite, or even worse, their own selfish interests.
So I agree with you Jim. Unfortunately the CFS no longer represents students across Canada on a grass roots scale, so we need to take back our local UVSS Board. Too often the CFS is politically partisan, which actually is a hindrance in working with all levels of government and working to compromise the favour of students.
Remove the CFS, remove the partisanship, and go talk to people in government, be civil, work together instead of divide. It is pretty simple to do this, but because of the CFS we can't and therefore no major results are occurring.
I am tired of the CFS' top down approach. UVic is our post-secondary institution and we are undergraduate students at UVic. Our voices deserve to be heard, but they will not be heard. The best way is for us to become independent and have our own voices, instead of bowing down to an almighty partisan instrument based out of Ontario. It is time for UVic to be heard, not CFS HQ.
Sheldon Oct. 8, 2009, 4:01 a.m.
Jim is right on one thing; we elect our local politicians to represent us municipally, provincially, and federally. As UVic undergraduate students we elect our UVSS Board of Directors too. Unfortunately our UVSS Board of Directors have not been representing our interests, rather the interests of the CFS elite, or even worse, their own selfish interests.
So I agree with you Jim. Unfortunately the CFS no longer represents students across Canada on a grass roots scale, so we need to take back our local UVSS Board. Too often the CFS is politically partisan, which actually is a hindrance in working with all levels of government and working to compromise the favour of students.
Remove the CFS, remove the partisanship, and go talk to people in government, be civil, work together instead of divide. It is pretty simple to do this, but because of the CFS we can't and therefore no major results are occurring.
I am tired of the CFS' top down approach. UVic is our post-secondary institution and we are undergraduate students at UVic. Our voices deserve to be heard, but they will not be heard. The best way is for us to become independent and have our own voices, instead of bowing down to an almighty partisan instrument based out of Ontario. It is time for UVic to be heard, not CFS HQ.
Sheldon Oct. 8, 2009, 4:02 a.m.
Jim is right on one thing; we elect our local politicians to represent us municipally, provincially, and federally. As UVic undergraduate students we elect our UVSS Board of Directors too. Unfortunately our UVSS Board of Directors have not been representing our interests, rather the interests of the CFS elite, or even worse, their own selfish interests.
So I agree with you Jim. Unfortunately the CFS no longer represents students across Canada on a grass roots scale, so we need to take back our local UVSS Board. Too often the CFS is politically partisan, which actually is a hindrance in working with all levels of government and working to compromise in the favour of students.
Remove the CFS, remove the partisanship, and go talk to people in government, be civil and work together instead of divide. It is pretty simple to do this, but because of the CFS we can't and therefore no major results are occurring.
I am tired of the CFS' top down approach. UVic is our post-secondary institution and we are undergraduate students at UVic. Our voices deserve to be heard, but they will not be heard. The best way is for us to become independent and have our own voices, instead of bowing down to an almighty partisan instrument based out of Ontario. It is time for UVic to be heard, not CFS HQ.
Sheldon Oct. 8, 2009, 4:02 a.m.
Jim is right on one thing; we elect our local politicians to represent us municipally, provincially, and federally. As UVic undergraduate students we elect our UVSS Board of Directors too. Unfortunately our UVSS Board of Directors have not been representing our interests, rather the interests of the CFS elite, or even worse, their own selfish interests.
So I agree with you Jim. Unfortunately the CFS no longer represents students across Canada on a grass roots scale, so we need to take back our local UVSS Board. Too often the CFS is politically partisan, which actually is a hindrance in working with all levels of government and working to compromise in the favour of students.
Remove the CFS, remove the partisanship, and go talk to people in government, be civil and work together instead of divide. It is pretty simple to do this, but because of the CFS we can't and therefore no major results are occurring.
I am tired of the CFS' top down approach. UVic is our post-secondary institution and we are undergraduate students at UVic. Our voices deserve to be heard, but they will not be heard. The best way is for us to become independent and have our own voices, instead of bowing down to an almighty partisan instrument based out of Ontario. It is time for UVic to be heard, not CFS HQ.
Andrew A Oct. 8, 2009, 6:41 a.m.
For starters, have any of the petitioners used the existing channels to make the CFS-BC moreeffective?Jim, this is precisely what SFU attempted to do for about a decade before defederating. The Peak first began reporting on the CFS's flaws back in 1998 and SFU boards that followed did try to reform the CFS from within. Unfortunately, when you are one of the few member schools of the CFS that elects a board interested in reforms, the motions and initiatives they submitted were easily defeated.
Andrew A Oct. 8, 2009, 6:41 a.m.
For starters, have any of the petitioners used the existing channels to make the CFS-BC moreeffective?Jim, this is precisely what SFU attempted to do for about a decade before defederating. The Peak first began reporting on the CFS's flaws back in 1998 and SFU boards that followed did try to reform the CFS from within. Unfortunately, when you are one of the few member schools of the CFS that elects a board interested in reforms, the motions and initiatives they submitted were easily defeated.
Andrew A Oct. 8, 2009, 6:58 a.m.
If you are not satisfied with the campaigns or policies of the CFS, there are a myriad of democratic opportunities to propose changes without withdrawing from the federation. The CFS-BC has two general meetings a year to do exactly that. Also, UVic has a permanent seat on the CFS-BC board of directors, which meets regularly throughout the year and allow concerns from each local to be raised.We are all members of the CFS, but can any of us just show up at General Meetings to express our concerns? Not unless you are one of the handful of people selected by the board. It should be obvious that this prevents real changes from actually occurring.
Andrew A Oct. 8, 2009, 6:58 a.m.
If you are not satisfied with the campaigns or policies of the CFS, there are a myriad of democratic opportunities to propose changes without withdrawing from the federation. The CFS-BC has two general meetings a year to do exactly that. Also, UVic has a permanent seat on the CFS-BC board of directors, which meets regularly throughout the year and allow concerns from each local to be raised.We are all members of the CFS, but can any of us just show up at General Meetings to express our concerns? Not unless you are one of the handful of people selected by the board. It should be obvious that this prevents real changes from actually occurring.
Jim B Oct. 8, 2009, 12:20 p.m.
Sheldon: you mean partisanship like the BC young liberals organizing this petition drive? Yeah, let's get rid of the partisanship--I'm with you.
Jim B Oct. 8, 2009, 12:20 p.m.
Sheldon: you mean partisanship like the BC young liberals organizing this petition drive? Yeah, let's get rid of the partisanship--I'm with you.
Matt Oct. 8, 2009, 12:27 p.m.
Jim, now you're just resorting to lying. The petition has been organized by people from a wide variety of political beliefs, including NDP supporters, Liberals, Greens and non-partisans. People from all across the political spectrum recognize that we'd be much better off as a student society without the CFS.
Matt Oct. 8, 2009, 12:27 p.m.
Jim, now you're just resorting to lying. The petition has been organized by people from a wide variety of political beliefs, including NDP supporters, Liberals, Greens and non-partisans. People from all across the political spectrum recognize that we'd be much better off as a student society without the CFS.
Jeff Oct. 8, 2009, 1:19 p.m.
Funny to see Jim B. attack all of the people here for wanting this referendum despite 13 student unions across Canada assembling to do this aswell.
The fact that the CFS is doing nothing to address their concerns is amazing. When that many schools from all over Canada all assemble to leave, then you know the problems run much deeper and more fundamental.
Jeff Oct. 8, 2009, 1:19 p.m.
Funny to see Jim B. attack all of the people here for wanting this referendum despite 13 student unions across Canada assembling to do this aswell.
The fact that the CFS is doing nothing to address their concerns is amazing. When that many schools from all over Canada all assemble to leave, then you know the problems run much deeper and more fundamental.
Michelle Oct. 8, 2009, 2:28 p.m.
It's not surprising that so many people want out of the CFS. When SFU and the UVic Grad students left the CFS, you'd think the CFS would have realized
Hey, maybe we're doing something wrong here. Maybe we should change the way we operate so that people have faith in us as an organization.No, instead of making any real change, they just argued over how they could make it harder for member schools to leave.Michelle Oct. 8, 2009, 2:28 p.m.
It's not surprising that so many people want out of the CFS. When SFU and the UVic Grad students left the CFS, you'd think the CFS would have realized
Hey, maybe we're doing something wrong here. Maybe we should change the way we operate so that people have faith in us as an organization.No, instead of making any real change, they just argued over how they could make it harder for member schools to leave.David Foster Oct. 8, 2009, 7:35 p.m.
Here are some things you should know about the CFS:
http://www.dailymotion.com/related/xnbzw/video/xnc22_cfs-corruption-3_news
David Foster Oct. 8, 2009, 7:35 p.m.
Here are some things you should know about the CFS:
http://www.dailymotion.com/related/xnbzw/video/xnc22_cfs-corruption-3_news
Sheldon Oct. 8, 2009, 7:59 p.m.
From what I have seen there are people involved in it that have political involvement in the NDP, Liberals, Greens, Conservatives, and many Independents or non-partisans. I think we see people who are tired of the CFS, students who are not getting the best of their buck.
It is time to let the students decide what they want done with their money. Do they want to stop sending money to CFS HQ? To many it is a waste of money.
Sheldon Oct. 8, 2009, 7:59 p.m.
From what I have seen there are people involved in it that have political involvement in the NDP, Liberals, Greens, Conservatives, and many Independents or non-partisans. I think we see people who are tired of the CFS, students who are not getting the best of their buck.
It is time to let the students decide what they want done with their money. Do they want to stop sending money to CFS HQ? To many it is a waste of money.
Whistleblower Oct. 8, 2009, 10:49 p.m.
If you are not satisfied with the campaigns or policies of the CFS, there are a myriad of democratic opportunities to propose changes without withdrawing from the federation. The CFS-BC has two general meetings a year to do exactly that. Also, UVic has a permanent seat on the CFS-BC board of directors, which meets regularly throughout the year and allow concerns from each local to be raised.Tell that to Derek Robertson, Kwantlen's choice for the CFS-BC Exec who was denied ratification by their executive because he wasn't able to act in the
best interestof the CFS-BC.Democratic opportunities? What a bloody joke.
Whistleblower Oct. 8, 2009, 10:49 p.m.
If you are not satisfied with the campaigns or policies of the CFS, there are a myriad of democratic opportunities to propose changes without withdrawing from the federation. The CFS-BC has two general meetings a year to do exactly that. Also, UVic has a permanent seat on the CFS-BC board of directors, which meets regularly throughout the year and allow concerns from each local to be raised.Tell that to Derek Robertson, Kwantlen's choice for the CFS-BC Exec who was denied ratification by their executive because he wasn't able to act in the
best interestof the CFS-BC.Democratic opportunities? What a bloody joke.
Robert Oct. 9, 2009, 6:41 a.m.
Don't worry too much about Jim B guys. People like him just throw those sorts of accusations out there to see what sticks.
Robert Oct. 9, 2009, 6:41 a.m.
Don't worry too much about Jim B guys. People like him just throw those sorts of accusations out there to see what sticks.
Mike Brown Oct. 10, 2009, 9:25 p.m.
CFS Rules, period. You are all suckers for not believing in such an AWESOME organization. They are cool, you are not.
And your arguments suck ass. There is absolutely no reason why we should keep that money on campus when the CFS puts it to better use in Ottawa. Beat that hippies !
Mike Brown Oct. 10, 2009, 9:25 p.m.
CFS Rules, period. You are all suckers for not believing in such an AWESOME organization. They are cool, you are not.
And your arguments suck ass. There is absolutely no reason why we should keep that money on campus when the CFS puts it to better use in Ottawa. Beat that hippies !
Aimee Oct. 12, 2009, 12:58 p.m.
I guess the major question is what are you going to do instead? Do you care about the fact that many UVic students can't balance paying their tuition and paying rent? Students use food banks, graduate with massive levels of debt, and education becomes more and more a privilege for the rich. Students can't just stop fighting on these issues.
When you have students divided, you see inconsistent and small institution based campaigns each year.
Yes, the CFS has problems, but so does UVSS and it doesn't mean all undergrads should leave them.
I would like to ask the petitioners how they think the student movement in Canada should look. I think we all want as many student unions as possible in every province, and from every institution to work together. I think we want to set common goals, and provide common cost-saving services. Do the petitioners want all 80+ student unions to leave the CFS and totally dismantle it? Where would that leave us?
I'd like to hear your alternative national vision.
Aimee Oct. 12, 2009, 12:58 p.m.
I guess the major question is what are you going to do instead? Do you care about the fact that many UVic students can't balance paying their tuition and paying rent? Students use food banks, graduate with massive levels of debt, and education becomes more and more a privilege for the rich. Students can't just stop fighting on these issues.
When you have students divided, you see inconsistent and small institution based campaigns each year.
Yes, the CFS has problems, but so does UVSS and it doesn't mean all undergrads should leave them.
I would like to ask the petitioners how they think the student movement in Canada should look. I think we all want as many student unions as possible in every province, and from every institution to work together. I think we want to set common goals, and provide common cost-saving services. Do the petitioners want all 80+ student unions to leave the CFS and totally dismantle it? Where would that leave us?
I'd like to hear your alternative national vision.
Whistleblower Oct. 12, 2009, 3:31 p.m.
Aimee the fact is the CFS is too corrupt and broken to be worth fixing.
The CFS does a terrible job of lobbying and part of that is due to their focus on
pressure protestsinstead of developing actual policy like CASA.Also, I don't think you realize, but the allegations of interference into local student union elections are REAL. People on the ground see it all the time and that's why they're angry--our local democracy has become threatened because of the patronage gravy train the CFS promotes.
UVic is the largest CFS-BC school in Canada, the two other big ones, UBC and SFU, have left. We would be much better served forming a CASA-mini here with those schools than to continue with the corrupt and scary CFS-BC.
Whistleblower Oct. 12, 2009, 3:31 p.m.
Aimee the fact is the CFS is too corrupt and broken to be worth fixing.
The CFS does a terrible job of lobbying and part of that is due to their focus on
pressure protestsinstead of developing actual policy like CASA.Also, I don't think you realize, but the allegations of interference into local student union elections are REAL. People on the ground see it all the time and that's why they're angry--our local democracy has become threatened because of the patronage gravy train the CFS promotes.
UVic is the largest CFS-BC school in Canada, the two other big ones, UBC and SFU, have left. We would be much better served forming a CASA-mini here with those schools than to continue with the corrupt and scary CFS-BC.
Michelle Oct. 12, 2009, 4:49 p.m.
Agreed. The CFS is broken and cannot be fixed. We've seen this time and time again -- many individuals and student unions have tried to fix it and they can't because the vested interests are so strong and desperately want to keep the status quo. Talk to anyone at SFU, Kwantlen or even right here at UVic's Grad Student Society and they'll tell you the same thing from first hand experience.
Whistleblower's comments about working with UBC and SFU are quite relevant. The CFS is absolutely notorious for not working with non-CFS schools and associations. Provincial lobbying is where it all counts and we'd have a much stronger voice if we worked with UBC and SFU to this end.
Michelle Oct. 12, 2009, 4:49 p.m.
Agreed. The CFS is broken and cannot be fixed. We've seen this time and time again -- many individuals and student unions have tried to fix it and they can't because the vested interests are so strong and desperately want to keep the status quo. Talk to anyone at SFU, Kwantlen or even right here at UVic's Grad Student Society and they'll tell you the same thing from first hand experience.
Whistleblower's comments about working with UBC and SFU are quite relevant. The CFS is absolutely notorious for not working with non-CFS schools and associations. Provincial lobbying is where it all counts and we'd have a much stronger voice if we worked with UBC and SFU to this end.
lihb Oct. 13, 2009, 5:51 a.m.
Harrison and Sall claim that
there are a myriad of democratic opportunities to propose changes.They then list two, not a myriad:
1)The CFS-BC has two general meetings a year
2) UVic has a permanent seat on the CFS-BC board of directors
Harrison and Sall don't seem to realize that this is not enough, and that people really are pissed off.
lihb Oct. 13, 2009, 5:51 a.m.
Harrison and Sall claim that
there are a myriad of democratic opportunities to propose changes.They then list two, not a myriad:
1)The CFS-BC has two general meetings a year
2) UVic has a permanent seat on the CFS-BC board of directors
Harrison and Sall don't seem to realize that this is not enough, and that people really are pissed off.
poli sci student Oct. 13, 2009, 7:43 p.m.
here's a question to the
grassrootorganizers of this petition drive who's small group has been flooding the comment section:Are you aware that young liberals have been organizing within their party to challenge CFS schools all across the country?
poli sci student Oct. 13, 2009, 7:43 p.m.
here's a question to the
grassrootorganizers of this petition drive who's small group has been flooding the comment section:Are you aware that young liberals have been organizing within their party to challenge CFS schools all across the country?
Sheldon Oct. 13, 2009, 11:44 p.m.
While I may not be involved in this petition, I disagree with the CFS tactics and how they operate. I think it is time that we leave, because there seems to be no benefit - except for the CFS elites who can have the luxury to continue their education with the money they get from other students (who work much harder for that money and do not have the same luxuries as CFS elite members).
Though I know people across partisan lines who are against the CFS. NDP, Liberal, Conservative, Green, and so forth. So I find it interesting
poli sci studentis trying to point some sort of partisan finger. If anything it is the CFS special interest side that is being partisan, and the anti-CFS side that is being non-partisan on the issue.Sheldon Oct. 13, 2009, 11:44 p.m.
While I may not be involved in this petition, I disagree with the CFS tactics and how they operate. I think it is time that we leave, because there seems to be no benefit - except for the CFS elites who can have the luxury to continue their education with the money they get from other students (who work much harder for that money and do not have the same luxuries as CFS elite members).
Though I know people across partisan lines who are against the CFS. NDP, Liberal, Conservative, Green, and so forth. So I find it interesting
poli sci studentis trying to point some sort of partisan finger. If anything it is the CFS special interest side that is being partisan, and the anti-CFS side that is being non-partisan on the issue.Michelle Oct. 14, 2009, 1:26 a.m.
Poli Sci Student,Most of the organizers of this group are non-partisan. All you're doing is trying to create a red herring and it's not going to work. You're just trying to distract people from the real issues at hand -- namely, an ineffective and corrupt organization.
Michelle Oct. 14, 2009, 1:26 a.m.
Poli Sci Student,Most of the organizers of this group are non-partisan. All you're doing is trying to create a red herring and it's not going to work. You're just trying to distract people from the real issues at hand -- namely, an ineffective and corrupt organization.
Reality Oct. 14, 2009, 4:09 a.m.
I wouldn't exactly say most of the group are non-partisan. It might be 50-50. Let's be honest, if you care enough to participate in this petition, you probably have other political connections. The reality though, is that those behind the petition have a wide array of political leanings and this isn't something being lead by any particular party.
How this is really all that relevant, however, I'm not too sure. Those who are pro-CFS should focus on why they think the UVSS should remain a member of the CFS rather than going after the students volunteering their time towards this petition. It would appear that they don't have much of a case if they have resorted to such tactics this early.
Reality Oct. 14, 2009, 4:09 a.m.
I wouldn't exactly say most of the group are non-partisan. It might be 50-50. Let's be honest, if you care enough to participate in this petition, you probably have other political connections. The reality though, is that those behind the petition have a wide array of political leanings and this isn't something being lead by any particular party.
How this is really all that relevant, however, I'm not too sure. Those who are pro-CFS should focus on why they think the UVSS should remain a member of the CFS rather than going after the students volunteering their time towards this petition. It would appear that they don't have much of a case if they have resorted to such tactics this early.
Kim Oct. 19, 2009, 10:31 a.m.
One of the most glaring problems with the article is that it argues for democratic reform of CFS from within. One could assume that they mean analyzing the faults in CFS's current structure and making motions and policy changes to correct the errors.
That's been tried, by CFS-Q (Quebec). According to CFS-National CFS-Q no longer exists. Following receipt of the package of motions CFS-National's lawyers informed CFS-Q that they were to stop using the CFS name and stop collecting fees.
http://www.thelinknewspaper.ca/articles/1638
http://moveoncarleton.com/blog/?p=12
The stated goals of CFS aren't the problem, it's the way the organization goes about implementing them that is damaging. The only way to fix the problem is to get out of CFS
Kim Oct. 19, 2009, 10:31 a.m.
One of the most glaring problems with the article is that it argues for democratic reform of CFS from within. One could assume that they mean analyzing the faults in CFS's current structure and making motions and policy changes to correct the errors.
That's been tried, by CFS-Q (Quebec). According to CFS-National CFS-Q no longer exists. Following receipt of the package of motions CFS-National's lawyers informed CFS-Q that they were to stop using the CFS name and stop collecting fees.
http://www.thelinknewspaper.ca/articles/1638
http://moveoncarleton.com/blog/?p=12
The stated goals of CFS aren't the problem, it's the way the organization goes about implementing them that is damaging. The only way to fix the problem is to get out of CFS