Petition questions future of UVic’s CFS membership
The organizers of the petition at UVic show off some 1,500-plus signatures they have already received from students interested in leaving the CFS.
According to UVic Students’ Society (UVSS) chairperson Veronica Harrison, the Canadian Federation of Students (CFS) is like a marriage. It’s the institution through which the UVSS has a relationship with other student societies across Canada. Now, some UVic students are asking for a divorce.
A petition is being circulated, asking students if they want a referendum where they will then vote on whether or not they want to continue being part of the CFS. It is the first time since UVic students voted to join the CFS in 1985 that such a question has been posed.
The petition has already reached the required number of signatures — 1,664, or 10 per cent of undergraduate students — to require a referendum. In fact, they’ve exceeded it. Jose Barrios, one of the petition’s organizers, said they are aiming for 2,000 signatures before they submit the petition to the CFS national office. From there, the CFS determines whether the petition meets the requirements stated in its bylaws and whether or not a referendum can be held.
“Due to the CFS’ aggressive litigations against any school wanting to conduct a referendum to de-federate, we will continue to collect signatures until we reach a number closer to 2,000 ... just to be safe,” Barrios wrote in an e-mail.
In 2008, the CFS was involved in legal disputes with three out of four schools who held referenda. The UVic Graduate Student Society (GSS) was the only one to avoid legal action and successfully defederate.
UVic isn’t the only school currently questioning its CFS membership, however. At least 13 other student societies across the country are circulating their own petitions.
However, Barrios suggested there may be up to 26 student societies circulating petitions. At press time, no petitions had been formally received by the CFS national office.
“This is a massive grass roots movement across the country, thousands and thousands of students are signing this petition across the country,” said Barrios. “As a matter of fact more than a thousand UVic students have already singed this petition. The numbers speak by themselves.”
Barrios hopes that by petitioning at the same time as other schools, the organizers will make it clear that the dissatisfaction with the CFS isn’t isolated to UVic students.
“There are many benefits to petitioning at the same time,” wrote Barrios. “But the most important one is that, contrary to what the CFS would like us to believe, there is a nation-wide feeling of dissatisfaction with the CFS and their inability to effectively lobby for students across the country.”
Membership — what does it get us, undergrads?
Every UVic undergrad student pays $7.98 per semester to the CFS through their UVSS fees. With more than 16,000 undergraduate students at UVic, the UVSS will send more than $200,000 in membership fees to the CFS (which includes CFS-BC) this year. In return, the CFS organizes, campaigns and lobbies at the national and provincial levels for things like lower tuition fees and better student aid.
One of the main concerns from the organizers is that students’ money could be put to better use.
“We decided to start petitioning when we became aware that the CFS gets $210,000 from us, UVic undergrads, each year,” said Barrios. “They have received literally millions of dollars from us alone, yet we are not seeing any effective lobbying being done in our behalf. We continue to pay higher and higher tuition fees year after year since we joined the CFS in 1986.”
Barrios noted that the economy is poor, and that the UVSS itself is running a deficit of $300,000.
“Why send money we don’t have to an organization that isn’t working? The money could be invested in our student society to reduce our deficit and advocate for local issues that affect everyday students in UVic,” he said.
However, others argue that there are benefits to being a member of the CFS. Harrison says that the CFS is a way for student societies to work together on collective interests.
“Essentially, those who are advocating [for] a referendum on the matter are proposing an isolationist approach under which the UVSS would cease to work together on a democratic, cooperative basis with student societies from across Canada,” she wrote in an e-mail.
Harrison said defederating would leave the UVSS with two alternatives: sit back and do nothing, hoping other student societies will do the work, or try to represent UVic students’ interests on its own.
“Obviously, the latter would be ineffective and cost prohibitive,” she said. “With respect to the former, the fewer student societies working on these issues, the less effective the national student organization will be, to the detriment of UVic students.”
CFS-BC chairperson Shamus Reid said that being members of the CFS allows UVic students to “benefit from a more affordable and higher-quality post-secondary education system.”
Reid says that decisions affecting the quality and affordability of post-secondary education are made by federal and provincial governments.
“Students need to be united and organized provincially and federally in order to have any chance of influencing these decisions,” he said. “Obviously, this costs money; and if the UVSS tried to do the work involved on its own it would cost UVic students a whole lot more money.”
Reid says through membership with the CFS, UVic students get to share this cost with more than 150,000 students across the province, and more than half a million students in Canada.
CFS-BC, the provincial component of the CFS, which is composed of 18 B.C. student unions, has an estimated revenue of $856,833.33 for 2009/2010, $725,000 of which comes from membership fees. The top-three expenses in CFS-BC’s draft budget for 2009/2010 are campaigns and government relations at $180,000, wages and benefits at $134,550 and $95,970 for executive members’ salaries and stipends.
Nicole O’Byrne, who sat on the referendum oversight committee during the GSS referendum, said their decision to defederate was almost entirely for financial reasons.
“There’s not one thing I can tell you that we got out of our membership with the CFS directly,” she said. “[We asked] ‘what are we getting for this money?’ and honestly, I can’t tell you.”
O’Byrne admitted the argument could be made that the CFS was lobbying in Ottawa on behalf of members, but added that the GSS was able to provide their own handbooks at two-thirds of what it cost to purchase them from the CFS. They were also able to make their own student cards, and arrange for their own health care plan.
Asking the question
The petition can only pose the question of defederation; from there, it’s up to the students to decide.
Harrison said a petition is only to hold a referendum, and that you can’t presuppose the outcome.
“To describe the petition as being ‘to leave the CFS’ is a mischaracterization,” Harrison said. “It may be that it is the ultimate motivation of one or more individuals, but there is no such thing as a ‘petition to leave the CFS.’”
The petitioners are also looking for students’ thoughts and opinions.
“The question for me is not one about leaving or staying, rather a question of democracy and due diligence — 1986 was the last time this question was asked of students,” said petitioner Curtis Smith. “Whether or not one feels they ought to defederate, they should support having a referendum in order to gauge the opinion of students.”
Smith believes 23 years is too long to remain a part of an organization without asking students if they still want to be in it.
“If students feel they want to stay, that’s fine, but the question must be posed to the student body,” he said.

54 Comments
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Jonathan Oct. 8, 2009, 7:36 a.m.
Keep up the good work! its nice to see you guys join the debate on the efficacy of CFS. Be prepared for CFS staff circulating around your campus getting a counter petition signed, confusing students and fighting democracy. They are here at Western and at Carlton.
Good luck in achieving your goals
Jonathan Oct. 8, 2009, 7:36 a.m.
Keep up the good work! its nice to see you guys join the debate on the efficacy of CFS. Be prepared for CFS staff circulating around your campus getting a counter petition signed, confusing students and fighting democracy. They are here at Western and at Carlton.
Good luck in achieving your goals
David Foster Oct. 8, 2009, 5:11 p.m.
Harrison said defederating would leave the UVSS with two alternatives: sit back and do nothing, hoping other student societies will do the work, or try to represent UVic students’ interests on its own.There are several points which are being completely overlooked here.
Of the three universities in BC which are big enough to actually have any affect on government policy, only one is a member of the CFS–and it's the smallest, and it's UVic. Our CFS membership hinders our ability to work with students at SFU and UBC which are not part of the CFS. The national picture is less extreme, but the CFS still omits many of the largest and most influential universities such as the University of Western Ontario and all three of the universities in Alberta. Membership in an organization composed of dozens of tiny little colleges and relatively few big universities isn't that helpful for us.
The CFS is not the only game in town. Harrison completely ignores the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations, with 300,000 members to the CFS' 500,000 (an outdated number in any case, since it hasn't been revised since SFU and Cape Breton University left the CFS in 2008) and membership fees which are only a fifth of those the CFS charges. CASA includes the University of Calgary, University of Alberta, University of Western Ontario and Dalhousie University. If we want to be part of a national network of student unions, we don't have to put up with the high costs and low return of the CFS–we could save money and join CASA. Or we could create a new alliance with UBC and SFU. To imply that the CFS is the only way for UVic students to work together with other student unions is simply mistaken.
David Foster Oct. 8, 2009, 5:11 p.m.
Harrison said defederating would leave the UVSS with two alternatives: sit back and do nothing, hoping other student societies will do the work, or try to represent UVic students’ interests on its own.There are several points which are being completely overlooked here.
Of the three universities in BC which are big enough to actually have any affect on government policy, only one is a member of the CFS–and it's the smallest, and it's UVic. Our CFS membership hinders our ability to work with students at SFU and UBC which are not part of the CFS. The national picture is less extreme, but the CFS still omits many of the largest and most influential universities such as the University of Western Ontario and all three of the universities in Alberta. Membership in an organization composed of dozens of tiny little colleges and relatively few big universities isn't that helpful for us.
The CFS is not the only game in town. Harrison completely ignores the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations, with 300,000 members to the CFS' 500,000 (an outdated number in any case, since it hasn't been revised since SFU and Cape Breton University left the CFS in 2008) and membership fees which are only a fifth of those the CFS charges. CASA includes the University of Calgary, University of Alberta, University of Western Ontario and Dalhousie University. If we want to be part of a national network of student unions, we don't have to put up with the high costs and low return of the CFS–we could save money and join CASA. Or we could create a new alliance with UBC and SFU. To imply that the CFS is the only way for UVic students to work together with other student unions is simply mistaken.
John Oct. 8, 2009, 6:39 p.m.
It isn't just like a marriage, its like a marraige in Saudi Arabia. In is not an equal partnership. If your fellow students come back from a CFS meeting frustrated with the opacity, cliques and ideology, and want to help guide you out, they need to commit to hundreds of hours of petition collection and campaigning that will cut in to their ability to make student's lives better. There's not telling how many student unions out there just haven't left yet because its too much work. Its easier to just let your students be misrepresented and to try and ignore or minimize the problem.
The problem is that like a Saudi woman who wants to wear pants is accused of heresy, a student union who is not impressed with insane CFS referendum rules is accused of promoting date rape or tuition increases, because the CFS has policies against them and to oppose one is to oppose the other. Its an inherently unjust and abusive relationship. If you are in the inner circle (as some students at UVic have been), or you are a very small school that needs the resources and services of the CFS, then its is a great deal for you. But if UVSS doesn't leave, you better kiss some serious CFS ass so you don't end up on the wrong end of the canings.
John Oct. 8, 2009, 6:39 p.m.
It isn't just like a marriage, its like a marraige in Saudi Arabia. In is not an equal partnership. If your fellow students come back from a CFS meeting frustrated with the opacity, cliques and ideology, and want to help guide you out, they need to commit to hundreds of hours of petition collection and campaigning that will cut in to their ability to make student's lives better. There's not telling how many student unions out there just haven't left yet because its too much work. Its easier to just let your students be misrepresented and to try and ignore or minimize the problem.
The problem is that like a Saudi woman who wants to wear pants is accused of heresy, a student union who is not impressed with insane CFS referendum rules is accused of promoting date rape or tuition increases, because the CFS has policies against them and to oppose one is to oppose the other. Its an inherently unjust and abusive relationship. If you are in the inner circle (as some students at UVic have been), or you are a very small school that needs the resources and services of the CFS, then its is a great deal for you. But if UVSS doesn't leave, you better kiss some serious CFS ass so you don't end up on the wrong end of the canings.
Kevin Oct. 8, 2009, 8:29 p.m.
Where can I sign this petition? I must've missed people at the fountain or something, I'd really like to get onboard but haven't had a chance to sign it.
Kevin Oct. 8, 2009, 8:29 p.m.
Where can I sign this petition? I must've missed people at the fountain or something, I'd really like to get onboard but haven't had a chance to sign it.
Shawn Oct. 8, 2009, 8:41 p.m.
It is a bloated organization that needs to go. I think that a few schools leaving will give it a chance to re-invent itself. CASA certainly has a better model of operating. I know people who are in CASA schools, and they say it is a much more member-driven organization than paid employee driven. Did you know that CFS pays some of its student reps over $40,000 a year, no wonder they don't want to leave!
Shawn Oct. 8, 2009, 8:41 p.m.
It is a bloated organization that needs to go. I think that a few schools leaving will give it a chance to re-invent itself. CASA certainly has a better model of operating. I know people who are in CASA schools, and they say it is a much more member-driven organization than paid employee driven. Did you know that CFS pays some of its student reps over $40,000 a year, no wonder they don't want to leave!
Kailey Oct. 8, 2009, 9:50 p.m.
Hi Guys, there is no one place to sign the petition, but I asked one of the organizers and they have placed the petition sheet online at:
http://www.filedropper.com/petitionsheets
for student use. It comes in a PDF file.
Kailey Oct. 8, 2009, 9:50 p.m.
Hi Guys, there is no one place to sign the petition, but I asked one of the organizers and they have placed the petition sheet online at:
http://www.filedropper.com/petitionsheets
for student use. It comes in a PDF file.
Paul Oct. 9, 2009, 3:53 a.m.
Actually - in response to David Foster - SFU IS a member of the CFS.
They had a
referendumin 2008. However, it was not an official referendum as per the defederation regulations. The SFSS disregarded the rules requiring a referendum oversight committee to conduct the referendum.Paul Oct. 9, 2009, 3:53 a.m.
Actually - in response to David Foster - SFU IS a member of the CFS.
They had a
referendumin 2008. However, it was not an official referendum as per the defederation regulations. The SFSS disregarded the rules requiring a referendum oversight committee to conduct the referendum.Peter Oct. 9, 2009, 5:11 a.m.
It is crazy that to leave an organization we have to follow that organizations rules. When I quit a gym, social club, or job with a union, I simply quit and stop paying. I don't have to leave by their crazy rules, or face going to court! The SFSS left, and the CFS sued. Its ridiculous!!
Peter Oct. 9, 2009, 5:11 a.m.
It is crazy that to leave an organization we have to follow that organizations rules. When I quit a gym, social club, or job with a union, I simply quit and stop paying. I don't have to leave by their crazy rules, or face going to court! The SFSS left, and the CFS sued. Its ridiculous!!
Thom Oct. 9, 2009, 9:59 a.m.
Calling CASA a
member-drivenorganization is hilarious - it's an association made up of individual student councils, not individual students. And, please, inform me whether they're doing their job effectively (or at all). Some members of the CFS do make a livable wage, that is true, but it's no more than a few, and the rate of pay does not reflect the work done. Think it's atop-heavyorganization? Call the National Office anytime and more often than not the National Chairperson herself will answer. The student movement will never move anywhere without unity - if you give a damn about accessible post-secondary education, your choice should be clear.Thom Oct. 9, 2009, 9:59 a.m.
Calling CASA a
member-drivenorganization is hilarious - it's an association made up of individual student councils, not individual students. And, please, inform me whether they're doing their job effectively (or at all). Some members of the CFS do make a livable wage, that is true, but it's no more than a few, and the rate of pay does not reflect the work done. Think it's atop-heavyorganization? Call the National Office anytime and more often than not the National Chairperson herself will answer. The student movement will never move anywhere without unity - if you give a damn about accessible post-secondary education, your choice should be clear.Andrew Oct. 9, 2009, 11:19 a.m.
I enrolled at the University of Victoria in 2001. The BC Liberals deregulated tuition frees when they got elected in 2000 and tuition fees increased up 10-20% at individual colleges and universities around the providence.
In response, the CFS ran an effective
Freeze the Feescampaign and won a 2% cap on tuition fees in BC in 2005. That means that colleges and universities can only increase tuition fees by 2% a year in BC.If you are enrolled in college or university, or have been enrolled over the past few years, you have potentially saved thousands of dollars because of the CFS.
As well, who do you think has been fighting for international students to work of campus for all these years? I can work off campus because of national CFS lobbying! I won the right to work of campus half way through my undergrad degree. I doubt the SU could have done that for me by themselves!
If our student union needs more money, which it sounds like it does, then let's have that debate. Maybe we should increase our SU fees? Leaving the CFS is not the solution. It is short sighted and irresponsible.
I like that the CFS stands for accessible post-secondary education, for everyone regardless of family income, and I have no problem paying only $7 a semester to have my voice in Ottawa heard.
Students united will never be defeated!!!
Andrew Oct. 9, 2009, 11:19 a.m.
I enrolled at the University of Victoria in 2001. The BC Liberals deregulated tuition frees when they got elected in 2000 and tuition fees increased up 10-20% at individual colleges and universities around the providence.
In response, the CFS ran an effective
Freeze the Feescampaign and won a 2% cap on tuition fees in BC in 2005. That means that colleges and universities can only increase tuition fees by 2% a year in BC.If you are enrolled in college or university, or have been enrolled over the past few years, you have potentially saved thousands of dollars because of the CFS.
As well, who do you think has been fighting for international students to work of campus for all these years? I can work off campus because of national CFS lobbying! I won the right to work of campus half way through my undergrad degree. I doubt the SU could have done that for me by themselves!
If our student union needs more money, which it sounds like it does, then let's have that debate. Maybe we should increase our SU fees? Leaving the CFS is not the solution. It is short sighted and irresponsible.
I like that the CFS stands for accessible post-secondary education, for everyone regardless of family income, and I have no problem paying only $7 a semester to have my voice in Ottawa heard.
Students united will never be defeated!!!
Anonymous Oct. 9, 2009, 4:29 p.m.
Andrew, we aren't trying to leave the CFS because we're against lobbying the government on education. We're against the CFS because of their corrupt practices, inability to lobby successfully and focus on internal control over grassroots democracy.
There is a loooong laundry list of absolutely terrible practices the CFS has done that make it worth leaving them. Here's just a fraction of the reasons why WE WANT OUT:
Suing nearly every school trying to leave from the CFS.
Intentionally derailing CFS referendums with insistence on unfair campaign regulations and rules. They even refused on a non-biased question at one point.
Using SLAPP suits and other threatening litigation to silence critics, including student journalists.
Interfering in the elections and politics of local student unions in order to control their political direction/loyalty to the CFS. (CFS-Quebec staffer was caught ON CAMERA ripping down posters in a Concordia Student Union election. Former CFS-BC volunteers have come forward with allegations of interference in UVic and UBC elections.)
Making a list of favourable and unfavourable student politicians in order to promote only those who never question or criticize the CFS, creating a culture of corruption and patronage.
Intimidating students and using unethical threats in order to win defederation campaigns. One staffer reportedly told a SFU student during defederation:
If you ever want to get a job in a union, you will stop.Taking social justice positions on subjects outside the realm of student lobbying, like the Gaza war.
Conducting completely non-partisan
Vote Educationads that burn all bridges with non-NDP politicians. Reportedly BC cabinet ministers will not even meet with CFS-BC because of their smear campaign against them during elections.Promoting lobbying victories the organization didn't achieve or even adequately research. CASA has a much better record of successful lobbying over the CFS.
I'm posting this comment as anonymous because I'm actually getting sued for writing this. THAT'S how fucking scary this organization is.
Anonymous Oct. 9, 2009, 4:29 p.m.
Andrew, we aren't trying to leave the CFS because we're against lobbying the government on education. We're against the CFS because of their corrupt practices, inability to lobby successfully and focus on internal control over grassroots democracy.
There is a loooong laundry list of absolutely terrible practices the CFS has done that make it worth leaving them. Here's just a fraction of the reasons why WE WANT OUT:
Suing nearly every school trying to leave from the CFS.
Intentionally derailing CFS referendums with insistence on unfair campaign regulations and rules. They even refused on a non-biased question at one point.
Using SLAPP suits and other threatening litigation to silence critics, including student journalists.
Interfering in the elections and politics of local student unions in order to control their political direction/loyalty to the CFS. (CFS-Quebec staffer was caught ON CAMERA ripping down posters in a Concordia Student Union election. Former CFS-BC volunteers have come forward with allegations of interference in UVic and UBC elections.)
Making a list of favourable and unfavourable student politicians in order to promote only those who never question or criticize the CFS, creating a culture of corruption and patronage.
Intimidating students and using unethical threats in order to win defederation campaigns. One staffer reportedly told a SFU student during defederation:
If you ever want to get a job in a union, you will stop.Taking social justice positions on subjects outside the realm of student lobbying, like the Gaza war.
Conducting completely non-partisan
Vote Educationads that burn all bridges with non-NDP politicians. Reportedly BC cabinet ministers will not even meet with CFS-BC because of their smear campaign against them during elections.Promoting lobbying victories the organization didn't achieve or even adequately research. CASA has a much better record of successful lobbying over the CFS.
I'm posting this comment as anonymous because I'm actually getting sued for writing this. THAT'S how fucking scary this organization is.
Geoff Oct. 9, 2009, 4:53 p.m.
Students united will never be defeated!!!I'm sure dictators everywhere use those same words. The point isn't about their so-called victories, it's about an organization that is corrupt and not accountable to the people. Just because a group gets a small thing passed (and I say small because they didn't even manage to freeze tuition) doesn't mean we should ignore the problems. An unaccountable corrupt organization is not a group I or for that matter any student should be a part of, regardless of their so-called 'victories.' Process is just as important as success.
Geoff Oct. 9, 2009, 4:53 p.m.
Students united will never be defeated!!!I'm sure dictators everywhere use those same words. The point isn't about their so-called victories, it's about an organization that is corrupt and not accountable to the people. Just because a group gets a small thing passed (and I say small because they didn't even manage to freeze tuition) doesn't mean we should ignore the problems. An unaccountable corrupt organization is not a group I or for that matter any student should be a part of, regardless of their so-called 'victories.' Process is just as important as success.
Mike Brown Oct. 10, 2009, 3:28 p.m.
The CFS saves students money and not only that but we give you Agendas for free so I think paying us $ 200,000 dollars is justified. Agendas are expensive.
Mike Brown Oct. 10, 2009, 3:28 p.m.
The CFS saves students money and not only that but we give you Agendas for free so I think paying us $ 200,000 dollars is justified. Agendas are expensive.
Chris Oct. 10, 2009, 7:27 p.m.
We actually pay $38,000 for our free agendas, thank you very much.
So yes, Mike, you are correct, agendas are expensive.
Chris Oct. 10, 2009, 7:27 p.m.
We actually pay $38,000 for our free agendas, thank you very much.
So yes, Mike, you are correct, agendas are expensive.
David Foster Oct. 10, 2009, 9:04 p.m.
@Paul: Saying that the Simon Fraser Student Society is a member of the CFS is extremely inaccurate and misleading. They haven't paid CFS fees for over a year, they don't send delegates to CFS conventions, they don't have a rep on the CFS-BC executive (check the CFS-BC website) they don't use CFS dayplanners (they make their own instead, for a fraction of the cost...) In what way are they part of the CFS? Yes, the CFS doesn't recognize their independence, but neither does the People's Republic of China recognize Taiwan (officially the Republic of China) nor does Canada or the UN. Yes, the SFSS is currently embroiled in a court case over the result of the referendum, which may be decided in favour or against them, but my statement
SFU is not part of the CFSreflects the reality of things as they are now. Saying SFU is a member of the CFS is like telling a tourist that Taiwan is part of China...there may be a legal case for it, but it doesn't reflect what you will find if you go there.@Thom: I don't recall making that statement about CASA you seem to be attributing to me. I don't think either CFS or CSA are
member-drivensince the boards of the member student unions in both organizations have complete control over who goes to conventions and sits on their executives as the local representatives. My point is that with CFS having 500,000 members and CSA having $300,000, thestudent movementis so far from being united, it's practically split down the middle. I'm not necessarily in favour of a national student organization, but if you are there is more than one choice out there–and CASA is much more affordable than the CFS.David Foster Oct. 10, 2009, 9:04 p.m.
@Paul: Saying that the Simon Fraser Student Society is a member of the CFS is extremely inaccurate and misleading. They haven't paid CFS fees for over a year, they don't send delegates to CFS conventions, they don't have a rep on the CFS-BC executive (check the CFS-BC website) they don't use CFS dayplanners (they make their own instead, for a fraction of the cost...) In what way are they part of the CFS? Yes, the CFS doesn't recognize their independence, but neither does the People's Republic of China recognize Taiwan (officially the Republic of China) nor does Canada or the UN. Yes, the SFSS is currently embroiled in a court case over the result of the referendum, which may be decided in favour or against them, but my statement
SFU is not part of the CFSreflects the reality of things as they are now. Saying SFU is a member of the CFS is like telling a tourist that Taiwan is part of China...there may be a legal case for it, but it doesn't reflect what you will find if you go there.@Thom: I don't recall making that statement about CASA you seem to be attributing to me. I don't think either CFS or CSA are
member-drivensince the boards of the member student unions in both organizations have complete control over who goes to conventions and sits on their executives as the local representatives. My point is that with CFS having 500,000 members and CSA having $300,000, thestudent movementis so far from being united, it's practically split down the middle. I'm not necessarily in favour of a national student organization, but if you are there is more than one choice out there–and CASA is much more affordable than the CFS.Mike Brown Oct. 10, 2009, 9:07 p.m.
Ok, so the agendas cost the uvic students a lot more than I thought they did, but 38,000 dollars isn't all too bad.
But I would agree that the price is much more than I would pay for a few pages of paper, besides I don't use them because I actually care about sustainability and electronic agendas (google calendars) do just as good of a job (if not better) but that is besides the point.
The CFS is a transparent organization. I don't know how people can think they are not transparent. Where are you getting your false information from?
Mike Brown Oct. 10, 2009, 9:07 p.m.
Ok, so the agendas cost the uvic students a lot more than I thought they did, but 38,000 dollars isn't all too bad.
But I would agree that the price is much more than I would pay for a few pages of paper, besides I don't use them because I actually care about sustainability and electronic agendas (google calendars) do just as good of a job (if not better) but that is besides the point.
The CFS is a transparent organization. I don't know how people can think they are not transparent. Where are you getting your false information from?
chris Oct. 11, 2009, 3:25 a.m.
so far we have established that the agendas cost us $38,000 the plus cfs membership costs us $234,000 plus the $7,000 in cfs pens equals $280,000.
mike, judging by your pervious postings i'm going to assume that you are a cfs staffer. So you should be able to answer this question better than anyone. please tell me without using the word lobby what our millions of dollars has gotten us.
chris Oct. 11, 2009, 3:25 a.m.
so far we have established that the agendas cost us $38,000 the plus cfs membership costs us $234,000 plus the $7,000 in cfs pens equals $280,000.
mike, judging by your pervious postings i'm going to assume that you are a cfs staffer. So you should be able to answer this question better than anyone. please tell me without using the word lobby what our millions of dollars has gotten us.
Matt O Oct. 11, 2009, 5:31 p.m.
transparency:http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnbzw_cfs-corruption-1_news http://www.dailymotion.com/related/xnbzw/video/xnc1a_cfs-corruption-2_news http://www.dailymotion.com/related/xnbzw/video/xnc22_cfs-corruption-3_news
Matt O Oct. 11, 2009, 5:31 p.m.
transparency:http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnbzw_cfs-corruption-1_news http://www.dailymotion.com/related/xnbzw/video/xnc1a_cfs-corruption-2_news http://www.dailymotion.com/related/xnbzw/video/xnc22_cfs-corruption-3_news
Matt O Oct. 11, 2009, 5:32 p.m.
oops, here's the correct link for the first one: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnbzw_cfs-corruption-1_news
Matt O Oct. 11, 2009, 5:32 p.m.
oops, here's the correct link for the first one: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnbzw_cfs-corruption-1_news
Sara Oct. 13, 2009, 4:51 a.m.
The CFS is transparent?
Please tell me where on the CFS's website I can find minutes from their general meetings and their constitution? How about where I can find audited financial statements so that I can find out where my money is going?
Sara Oct. 13, 2009, 4:51 a.m.
The CFS is transparent?
Please tell me where on the CFS's website I can find minutes from their general meetings and their constitution? How about where I can find audited financial statements so that I can find out where my money is going?
Anonymous Oct. 13, 2009, 6:49 a.m.
Not only is the CFS not transparent, but they are corrupt too. I can go on and on about the corruption and fraud, but I'll provide one example:
Just this year at Concordia, a CFS-Quebec staffer and CFS National Executive member tried to extort $25,000 out of a longtime trusted health plan broker in order fund a pro-CFS slate for the Concordia elections.
The health plan broker for ASEQ, having something we generally refer to as
ethics, refused his request. After failing to meet the threats of the extortion attempt, the CSU council members involved in the extortion illegally ended the health contract with ASEQ and gave it to Morneau Sobeco, the company that handles CFS Greenshield health plans (which UVic is also under... hmm..).Since this new health plan with the CFS was made without any tendering or transparency, the health plan broker has gone public about the incident. You can read his legal affadavit here:
http://blog.fagstein.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/letter-to-csu-feb-2009.pdf
I recommend you read the whole thing, but here are some juicy quotes of CFS corruption from this affadavit (and further proof that the CFS involve themselves in student elections while also pushing crappy health plans on students):
9. Mr, Rosenshein proceeded to explain that he was again organizing the campaign of the executive slate in the upcoming CSU election, which was starting the following week. He stated that in the past his work had been supported by the CFS, which he also described as acertain organization which I have worked for and which is your competitor, but that this support was no longer forthcoming because the CFS 'had its hands full dealing with referendums on other campuses'12. Mr. Rosenshein stated that he knew that our contract with the CSU was expiring next year, and that it would be aa good ideafor us to show loyalty to his slate. He stated that 'look, I know the CFS wants to get the Concordia health plan, they are working hard behind the scences, and they have been giving us lots of support'You can read press articles of the scandal all over the place:
http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2009/02/12/head-of-canadas-largest-student-health-plan-alleges-25000-bribe/ http://thelinknewspaper.ca/articles/884
So you would think that such a breach of confidence over a multi-million dollar service (our health plan!) would result in the CFS severing ties with this person and pursuing a serious investigation into this incident and its relationship with Morneau Sobeco... right? Wrong. Instead, CFS-Quebec spokesperson Noah Stewart comes out defending the fraudsters with his favourite weapon: lawsuits (is this even surprising anymore?): http://www.thelinknewspaper.ca/articles/945
But of course, this should be expected, since Noah Stewart has no problem with this behaviour either, considering he was caught ripping down the posters of anti-CFS slates during Concordia elections: http://www.thelinknewspaper.ca/articles/1039
And Noah then, like Rosenshein now, paid no price for his actions. And that's because screwing over your student union to help the CFS is how you secure a job in the patronage giving culture that is the `Canadian Federation of Students.
If you think this corruption is an isolated incident, think again. This is just one example of the endless cases of irregularities and fraud occuring by this organization. And trust me, the more you look into who's involved in this organization, the more you'll want out. I have wrote this whole message anonymously out of a real fear of being sued. But thankfully the internet has allowed the abuses of this organization to be displayed publicly for all to see, and thankfully the CFS is powerless to stop it (despite their attempts to silence accountability with lawsuits).
If I could leave you with one message it's this: the CFS is like eating a sausage, the less you know about its inner workings, the happier you'll be about it.
Anonymous Oct. 13, 2009, 6:49 a.m.
Not only is the CFS not transparent, but they are corrupt too. I can go on and on about the corruption and fraud, but I'll provide one example:
Just this year at Concordia, a CFS-Quebec staffer and CFS National Executive member tried to extort $25,000 out of a longtime trusted health plan broker in order fund a pro-CFS slate for the Concordia elections.
The health plan broker for ASEQ, having something we generally refer to as
ethics, refused his request. After failing to meet the threats of the extortion attempt, the CSU council members involved in the extortion illegally ended the health contract with ASEQ and gave it to Morneau Sobeco, the company that handles CFS Greenshield health plans (which UVic is also under... hmm..).Since this new health plan with the CFS was made without any tendering or transparency, the health plan broker has gone public about the incident. You can read his legal affadavit here:
http://blog.fagstein.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/letter-to-csu-feb-2009.pdf
I recommend you read the whole thing, but here are some juicy quotes of CFS corruption from this affadavit (and further proof that the CFS involve themselves in student elections while also pushing crappy health plans on students):
9. Mr, Rosenshein proceeded to explain that he was again organizing the campaign of the executive slate in the upcoming CSU election, which was starting the following week. He stated that in the past his work had been supported by the CFS, which he also described as acertain organization which I have worked for and which is your competitor, but that this support was no longer forthcoming because the CFS 'had its hands full dealing with referendums on other campuses'12. Mr. Rosenshein stated that he knew that our contract with the CSU was expiring next year, and that it would be aa good ideafor us to show loyalty to his slate. He stated that 'look, I know the CFS wants to get the Concordia health plan, they are working hard behind the scences, and they have been giving us lots of support'You can read press articles of the scandal all over the place:
http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2009/02/12/head-of-canadas-largest-student-health-plan-alleges-25000-bribe/ http://thelinknewspaper.ca/articles/884
So you would think that such a breach of confidence over a multi-million dollar service (our health plan!) would result in the CFS severing ties with this person and pursuing a serious investigation into this incident and its relationship with Morneau Sobeco... right? Wrong. Instead, CFS-Quebec spokesperson Noah Stewart comes out defending the fraudsters with his favourite weapon: lawsuits (is this even surprising anymore?): http://www.thelinknewspaper.ca/articles/945
But of course, this should be expected, since Noah Stewart has no problem with this behaviour either, considering he was caught ripping down the posters of anti-CFS slates during Concordia elections: http://www.thelinknewspaper.ca/articles/1039
And Noah then, like Rosenshein now, paid no price for his actions. And that's because screwing over your student union to help the CFS is how you secure a job in the patronage giving culture that is the `Canadian Federation of Students.
If you think this corruption is an isolated incident, think again. This is just one example of the endless cases of irregularities and fraud occuring by this organization. And trust me, the more you look into who's involved in this organization, the more you'll want out. I have wrote this whole message anonymously out of a real fear of being sued. But thankfully the internet has allowed the abuses of this organization to be displayed publicly for all to see, and thankfully the CFS is powerless to stop it (despite their attempts to silence accountability with lawsuits).
If I could leave you with one message it's this: the CFS is like eating a sausage, the less you know about its inner workings, the happier you'll be about it.
Caitlin Oct. 15, 2009, 10:23 a.m.
I find the reasons quoted in the article for having a referendum on membership totally depressing. Barrios says that he doesn't want money going towards an organisation he feels isn't doing any effective lobbying. However, how will not being a part of this organisation change any of that? There is certainly a great deal of lobbying and campaigns occurring, whether you find them effective is a matter of opinion. I certainly think there is a place for constructive criticism, but we completely lose our voice on these issues if as a Student Union UVic isn't even at the table. Why is it that if there is something wrong we try to blow the whole thing up instead of repairing it?
And speaking of effective campaigns, wasn't it Barrios who was strongly promoting the $10 Now campaign that the CFS was involved with, when he was on strike last fall for higher wages at the SUB? He seemed to support the campaigns and lobbying then...
Like it or not, there IS power in numbers, and as students nation wide we will send a strong signal to provincial and federal government that we are not organized if we let this kind of thing continue.
Caitlin Oct. 15, 2009, 10:23 a.m.
I find the reasons quoted in the article for having a referendum on membership totally depressing. Barrios says that he doesn't want money going towards an organisation he feels isn't doing any effective lobbying. However, how will not being a part of this organisation change any of that? There is certainly a great deal of lobbying and campaigns occurring, whether you find them effective is a matter of opinion. I certainly think there is a place for constructive criticism, but we completely lose our voice on these issues if as a Student Union UVic isn't even at the table. Why is it that if there is something wrong we try to blow the whole thing up instead of repairing it?
And speaking of effective campaigns, wasn't it Barrios who was strongly promoting the $10 Now campaign that the CFS was involved with, when he was on strike last fall for higher wages at the SUB? He seemed to support the campaigns and lobbying then...
Like it or not, there IS power in numbers, and as students nation wide we will send a strong signal to provincial and federal government that we are not organized if we let this kind of thing continue.
Craig Oct. 15, 2009, 8:32 p.m.
I think that taking a look at the recent events in Quebec also gives you an idea of the lengths that the CFS goes to to silence dissenters.
CFS Canada has just severed ties with CFS Quebec for trying to reform the organization from the inside (as so many CFS'ers are promoting).
So, its tow the party line or out the door.
http://www.thelinknewspaper.ca/articles/1638
http://www.scribd.com/doc/21089026/CFSreformPackage-14October2009
Craig Oct. 15, 2009, 8:32 p.m.
I think that taking a look at the recent events in Quebec also gives you an idea of the lengths that the CFS goes to to silence dissenters.
CFS Canada has just severed ties with CFS Quebec for trying to reform the organization from the inside (as so many CFS'ers are promoting).
So, its tow the party line or out the door.
http://www.thelinknewspaper.ca/articles/1638
http://www.scribd.com/doc/21089026/CFSreformPackage-14October2009
John Oct. 15, 2009, 8:40 p.m.
Leaving the CFS wouldn't involve
blowing upanything if the people involved didn't see themselves as the Spanish Inquisition of student politics. If the various CFS entities just accepted the petitions, didn't come out to campaign and accepted the results of the referendum, there might be a few articles here and there about some schools leaving but there wouldn't be tens of thousands if students disgusted by the waste of resources that these referenda truly are. All these campaigns will achieve, whether UVSS stays or goes, is bad blood between both parties. Noble-hearted people on both sides will not be able to work together after this. This doesn't have to be a fight between your unions, this doesn't have to be a distraction for the few people willing to do the work of the student union. This can be a non-issue. If the CFS is really on the moral high ground, they should show it by shrugging their shoulders and letting go.John Oct. 15, 2009, 8:40 p.m.
Leaving the CFS wouldn't involve
blowing upanything if the people involved didn't see themselves as the Spanish Inquisition of student politics. If the various CFS entities just accepted the petitions, didn't come out to campaign and accepted the results of the referendum, there might be a few articles here and there about some schools leaving but there wouldn't be tens of thousands if students disgusted by the waste of resources that these referenda truly are. All these campaigns will achieve, whether UVSS stays or goes, is bad blood between both parties. Noble-hearted people on both sides will not be able to work together after this. This doesn't have to be a fight between your unions, this doesn't have to be a distraction for the few people willing to do the work of the student union. This can be a non-issue. If the CFS is really on the moral high ground, they should show it by shrugging their shoulders and letting go.Sheldon Oct. 16, 2009, 12:21 a.m.
Caitlin,
We are not losing much if we leave from the CFS. Most of the education and advanced education policies are done at the provincial level, we see a lot of money go towards federal campaigns, which is odd as most educational jurisdiction is at the provincial level. Then we look and see a significant portion of their lobbying at the federal level for issues that are not related to educational or advanced educational policies that benefit Canadian students at all.
Additionally Caitlin, the CFS does not give us any credit or put us at the table provincially because they are not willing to work with the provincial government, as well as other levels of government. Being independent would actually allow us to be able to sit at the table with government. It would also allow us to lobby for the students at UVic, and work with other major universities in British Columbia on improving post-secondary education for all students enrolled in BC.
Sheldon Oct. 16, 2009, 12:21 a.m.
Caitlin,
We are not losing much if we leave from the CFS. Most of the education and advanced education policies are done at the provincial level, we see a lot of money go towards federal campaigns, which is odd as most educational jurisdiction is at the provincial level. Then we look and see a significant portion of their lobbying at the federal level for issues that are not related to educational or advanced educational policies that benefit Canadian students at all.
Additionally Caitlin, the CFS does not give us any credit or put us at the table provincially because they are not willing to work with the provincial government, as well as other levels of government. Being independent would actually allow us to be able to sit at the table with government. It would also allow us to lobby for the students at UVic, and work with other major universities in British Columbia on improving post-secondary education for all students enrolled in BC.
David Oct. 16, 2009, 1:36 a.m.
Caitlin has a point about not being able to change the CFS if we're not in it. But I think the reason this is such a divisive issue is that so many students feel they don't have a voice within the CFS. We don't get to directly elect our representative to the CFS, we have no direct say in who the CFS-BC president is, dissident student groups get taken to court by the CFS, and many of the CFS campaigns, such as the $10 minimum wage campaign Caitlin mentions, are not really student issues and are politically divisive instead.
If the CFS wants to be viable, I think it has to try to let all students into its movement, even its opponents. They ran that big
I Am CFScampaign last year to try to paint themselves as inclusive, but their actions make many students feel like outsiders. Until that changes, there will always be opposition to the CFS.David Oct. 16, 2009, 1:36 a.m.
Caitlin has a point about not being able to change the CFS if we're not in it. But I think the reason this is such a divisive issue is that so many students feel they don't have a voice within the CFS. We don't get to directly elect our representative to the CFS, we have no direct say in who the CFS-BC president is, dissident student groups get taken to court by the CFS, and many of the CFS campaigns, such as the $10 minimum wage campaign Caitlin mentions, are not really student issues and are politically divisive instead.
If the CFS wants to be viable, I think it has to try to let all students into its movement, even its opponents. They ran that big
I Am CFScampaign last year to try to paint themselves as inclusive, but their actions make many students feel like outsiders. Until that changes, there will always be opposition to the CFS.Put our differences aside Oct. 16, 2009, 8:47 p.m.
John makes a really, really good point. This CFS referendum, while in my opinion necessary due to the problems internally, is an extremely divisive process for students.
It really speaks to the need for the CFS to leave campuses alone and let them handle this by themselves without interference.
And also. If there weren't such vested interests on one side to score future positions and careers in the CFS, then I suspect the petitioning process would be much less divisive and time consuming.
Put our differences aside Oct. 16, 2009, 8:47 p.m.
John makes a really, really good point. This CFS referendum, while in my opinion necessary due to the problems internally, is an extremely divisive process for students.
It really speaks to the need for the CFS to leave campuses alone and let them handle this by themselves without interference.
And also. If there weren't such vested interests on one side to score future positions and careers in the CFS, then I suspect the petitioning process would be much less divisive and time consuming.