Put sewage treatment in our backyard: UVic prof
UVic should embrace the prospect of a campus sewage treatment plant as an opportunity to reduce our environmental footprint and contribute to a “legacy of sustainability,” says UVic geography professor John Newcomb.
UVic’s campus grounds could be the location of a sewage treatment plant as early as 2010. Of the three locations the Capital Region District (CRD) has short-listed, one is Wallace Field, a UVic rugby field north of the stadium, and another is a dog-walking park on Cedar Hill Crossroad; both are UVic property.
Haro Woods is the third candidate.
However, Newcomb hopes to rally support for constructing a plant on the current McKinnon Gym parking lot, a site not currently being considered by the CRD.
He believes UVic should embrace having a plant nearby.
“UVic could enjoy a stream of resource-recovery benefits,” said Newcomb. “The two biggest ones would be sewage effluent heat-recovery, and water for irrigation of the fields.”
A treatment plant constructed at either of the proposed UVic locations threatens to reduce recreational space, hamper UVic’s development plans and diminish the potential for urban agriculture.
However, UVic’s administration has made no indication it will sell any property to the CRD.
The cost of the land could deter the CRD from choosing a UVic site, considering Haro Woods is already public land.
Currently, the CRD favours the Haro Woods site mainly because it has the lowest estimated economic cost of the three options: it’s almost $20 million cheaper than the UVic fields site and $23 million cheaper than the Cedar Hill site.
Their triple bottom-line analysis of community, economic and environmental factors rated Haro Woods as the best location despite having the lowest score for environmental impact.
The McKinnon Gym parking lot is already developed, making it a greener choice, says Newcomb.
Though the lot is already the proposed site for a new athletic building, Newcomb hopes to change the minds of students and the administration.
“To put a sewage plant at Haro Woods is a bad idea, and to put it on fields you could use for urban agriculture is a bad idea,” he said. “But we’ve got this parking lot that otherwise would be used as an athletic building? Well, we have a better [option] now.”
The UVSS committee for Environmental Responsibility is “completely on board,” said committee chair Christine Comrie.
The committee plans to draft a letter to UVic president David Turpin and other officials, and hand out pamphlets.
“There could have been more investigation into possible sites ... and we need to make students aware of the options,” said Comrie.
Students should be asked if they want another athletic building, and also if they would prefer a treatment plant, she said.
“I would really like to see the students get active in September, and go to the administration,” said Newcomb. “It was the students who saved Mystic Vale, and who saved the Cunningham Woods from destruction; they have got a tremendous voice; they’ve got real power.”
60 Comments
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John Newcomb Sept. 10, 2009, 7:23 p.m.
Hey Sean - good article! I guess the editor chose that toilet photo. Hmmmm...looks like a map of UVic in the bowl? Subliminal message or what!
Okay so anybody interested in following up, please get active with UVSS Environmental Responsibility Committee, Christine Comrie!
My UVic sewage plant website, with article attached at bottom: http://sites.google.com/site/uvicsewageplant/
John
John Newcomb Sept. 10, 2009, 7:23 p.m.
Hey Sean - good article! I guess the editor chose that toilet photo. Hmmmm...looks like a map of UVic in the bowl? Subliminal message or what!
Okay so anybody interested in following up, please get active with UVSS Environmental Responsibility Committee, Christine Comrie!
My UVic sewage plant website, with article attached at bottom: http://sites.google.com/site/uvicsewageplant/
John
George Sept. 11, 2009, 11:56 p.m.
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. It's gotta be a joke.
George Sept. 11, 2009, 11:56 p.m.
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. It's gotta be a joke.
John Newcomb Sept. 12, 2009, 12:58 p.m.
Hey George and anybody else who thinks my proposal is a joke - pooh on you! :-)
ITS NOT A JOKE!!
If you use UVic showers, toilets, urinals, washbasins, or eat at UVic cafeterias, you're producing human sewage, and proper sustainable stewardship means you have to deal with it:
The sewage goes out our two long screened ocean outfalls - thats okay because its sustainable, it works and produces very little climate change gases.
If Victoria is forced to put additional sewage plants on land, then clear-cutting Haro Woods - also creating more greenhouse gases and tons of sewagel sludge - then we better look for the least-damaging way to do that. Putting the resource-recovery sewage plant on MacKinnon Gym parking lot is the way to go!
Read more about responsible sewage treatment in victoria: http://www.rstv.ca or my own MacKinnon Gym parking lot proposal: http://sites.google.com/site/uvicsewageplant/
John Newcomb Sept. 12, 2009, 12:58 p.m.
Hey George and anybody else who thinks my proposal is a joke - pooh on you! :-)
ITS NOT A JOKE!!
If you use UVic showers, toilets, urinals, washbasins, or eat at UVic cafeterias, you're producing human sewage, and proper sustainable stewardship means you have to deal with it:
The sewage goes out our two long screened ocean outfalls - thats okay because its sustainable, it works and produces very little climate change gases.
If Victoria is forced to put additional sewage plants on land, then clear-cutting Haro Woods - also creating more greenhouse gases and tons of sewagel sludge - then we better look for the least-damaging way to do that. Putting the resource-recovery sewage plant on MacKinnon Gym parking lot is the way to go!
Read more about responsible sewage treatment in victoria: http://www.rstv.ca or my own MacKinnon Gym parking lot proposal: http://sites.google.com/site/uvicsewageplant/
G Sept. 14, 2009, 6:44 a.m.
If it's $20 million cheaper to put the plant in Haro Woods, put it in Haro Woods!!!
If we're going to protect our environment, we should spend our money wisely.
How many solar panels could we buy for $20 million? How many buses?
This unnecessary sewage treatment system is already costing us at least a billion dollars. Imagine what we could to for our envirnment with that amount of money.
G Sept. 14, 2009, 6:44 a.m.
If it's $20 million cheaper to put the plant in Haro Woods, put it in Haro Woods!!!
If we're going to protect our environment, we should spend our money wisely.
How many solar panels could we buy for $20 million? How many buses?
This unnecessary sewage treatment system is already costing us at least a billion dollars. Imagine what we could to for our envirnment with that amount of money.
David Sept. 14, 2009, 10:37 a.m.
G is right. Not to mention the cost of putting a plant in a prime spot on campus. What would happen to all those parking spots that are already hard to come by on campus? What would happen to UVic's ability to recruit top students and researchers with a smelly eyesore next to the bookstore? Hiding a plant in the woods is a much better idea.
David Sept. 14, 2009, 10:37 a.m.
G is right. Not to mention the cost of putting a plant in a prime spot on campus. What would happen to all those parking spots that are already hard to come by on campus? What would happen to UVic's ability to recruit top students and researchers with a smelly eyesore next to the bookstore? Hiding a plant in the woods is a much better idea.
Kelsey Sept. 14, 2009, 1:51 p.m.
What kind of noises/odors can we expect from having a sewage treatment facility at UVic?
How much additional heat energy can we accumulate from sewage waste for UVic uses compared to a similar 20 million dollar investment in other renewable energy sources?
These types of questions will need answering, because 20 million dollars is no small amount. Also, while I understand the idea of moving away from parking space in municipal bylaws, etc, as part of moving towards green development, taking away ALL of that parking in Mackinnon will not be easy to replace or mitigate. There are some serious practical concerns to consider here, even if the concerns mentioned aren't exactly fitting with the principles green development.
Kelsey Sept. 14, 2009, 1:51 p.m.
What kind of noises/odors can we expect from having a sewage treatment facility at UVic?
How much additional heat energy can we accumulate from sewage waste for UVic uses compared to a similar 20 million dollar investment in other renewable energy sources?
These types of questions will need answering, because 20 million dollars is no small amount. Also, while I understand the idea of moving away from parking space in municipal bylaws, etc, as part of moving towards green development, taking away ALL of that parking in Mackinnon will not be easy to replace or mitigate. There are some serious practical concerns to consider here, even if the concerns mentioned aren't exactly fitting with the principles green development.
Jacob Sept. 14, 2009, 4:07 p.m.
I think its a great idea.
Sure you can invest the same amount of money into solar panels. But a sewage treatment plant is needed in Victoria, and the renewable power and clean water are needed for the university.
The fact that this is a large environmental iniative would definetly promote the campus as an sustainable one.
Again, great great idea.
Jacob Sept. 14, 2009, 4:07 p.m.
I think its a great idea.
Sure you can invest the same amount of money into solar panels. But a sewage treatment plant is needed in Victoria, and the renewable power and clean water are needed for the university.
The fact that this is a large environmental iniative would definetly promote the campus as an sustainable one.
Again, great great idea.
Jamie Sept. 14, 2009, 10:41 p.m.
UVic could please everyone by turning existing restrooms into additional parking or recreational facilities and reduce it's sewage creation by making people poop in mystic vale.
Jamie Sept. 14, 2009, 10:41 p.m.
UVic could please everyone by turning existing restrooms into additional parking or recreational facilities and reduce it's sewage creation by making people poop in mystic vale.
Andrew A Sept. 15, 2009, 2:08 p.m.
I was planning on writing a letter about this, and maybe I still will for next week, but am I the only person who notice John Newcomb's apparent contradiction of himself in this article?
For almost 5 years I have followed John's letters and comments against sewage treatment in several publications. Here a few examples just from the Martlet alone spanning the past 4 years:
http://www.martlet.ca/article/17528-city-considers-haro-woods-site http://www.martlet.ca/article/2938-letters-madson-out-of http://www.martlet.ca/view.php?aid=39506 http://www.martlet.ca/old/archives/051117/letters.html
A simple google search of 'John Newcomb sewage treatment' will reveal many more.
there is absolutely no need for additional sewage treatment in the CRD, as noted UVic marine biologists have emphasized over many years of research. To be forced into building mammoth land-based sewage plants is an incredible crime against our environment for which our children will hold us accountable.-John NewcombAnd yet, now he's telling us to embrace a treatment plant?? Don't ask what we could do with $20 million of environmental investment. Ask what kind of difference we could make with $1.2 BILLION. Yes, that's how much these projects are estimated to cost.
Andrew A Sept. 15, 2009, 2:08 p.m.
I was planning on writing a letter about this, and maybe I still will for next week, but am I the only person who notice John Newcomb's apparent contradiction of himself in this article?
For almost 5 years I have followed John's letters and comments against sewage treatment in several publications. Here a few examples just from the Martlet alone spanning the past 4 years:
http://www.martlet.ca/article/17528-city-considers-haro-woods-site http://www.martlet.ca/article/2938-letters-madson-out-of http://www.martlet.ca/view.php?aid=39506 http://www.martlet.ca/old/archives/051117/letters.html
A simple google search of 'John Newcomb sewage treatment' will reveal many more.
there is absolutely no need for additional sewage treatment in the CRD, as noted UVic marine biologists have emphasized over many years of research. To be forced into building mammoth land-based sewage plants is an incredible crime against our environment for which our children will hold us accountable.-John NewcombAnd yet, now he's telling us to embrace a treatment plant?? Don't ask what we could do with $20 million of environmental investment. Ask what kind of difference we could make with $1.2 BILLION. Yes, that's how much these projects are estimated to cost.
Logan Sept. 15, 2009, 2:27 p.m.
This proposal is actually a very sound one, if you look into the dockside green project they have sewage treatment right onsite and you would not know it was there if they did not have signs saying as much. It look just like any other piece of the land there.
Sewage treatment is actually required now due to rulings from the gov and I think higher courts, so using space that is already barely being used makes sense especially if we want to get away from overusing individual vehicles daily.
Logan Sept. 15, 2009, 2:27 p.m.
This proposal is actually a very sound one, if you look into the dockside green project they have sewage treatment right onsite and you would not know it was there if they did not have signs saying as much. It look just like any other piece of the land there.
Sewage treatment is actually required now due to rulings from the gov and I think higher courts, so using space that is already barely being used makes sense especially if we want to get away from overusing individual vehicles daily.
Sean P Sept. 15, 2009, 4:40 p.m.
I did not make John's stance clear enough in retrospect. It is that if we must have sewage treatment, then the McKinnon parking lot is the best option.
Sean P Sept. 15, 2009, 4:40 p.m.
I did not make John's stance clear enough in retrospect. It is that if we must have sewage treatment, then the McKinnon parking lot is the best option.
paul Sept. 16, 2009, 9:25 a.m.
I challenge anyone out there to find me one single scholarly article in a peer reviewed journal that argues sewage treatment is not needed.
You wont find one. The Geography TA, John Newcomb doesn't know what he is talking about. Victoria is the only city in Canada or the United States that doesn't have sewage treatment.
And as for sewage treatment at dockside green, a septic field for a community is one thing, a sewage treatment facility for an entire reign with hundreds of thousands of people is entirely different.
paul Sept. 16, 2009, 9:25 a.m.
I challenge anyone out there to find me one single scholarly article in a peer reviewed journal that argues sewage treatment is not needed.
You wont find one. The Geography TA, John Newcomb doesn't know what he is talking about. Victoria is the only city in Canada or the United States that doesn't have sewage treatment.
And as for sewage treatment at dockside green, a septic field for a community is one thing, a sewage treatment facility for an entire reign with hundreds of thousands of people is entirely different.
Alvin Sept. 16, 2009, 10:09 p.m.
How did Sean become an expert on sewage and how did Johngo from being a lab instructor to a professor. Put the plant someplace in Saanich and not at UVic.
Alvin Sept. 16, 2009, 10:09 p.m.
How did Sean become an expert on sewage and how did Johngo from being a lab instructor to a professor. Put the plant someplace in Saanich and not at UVic.
David Sept. 16, 2009, 11:59 p.m.
Paul and Alvin raise an important flag. The whole basis for the article is that someone of prominence — a professor specifically — says it's a good idea to put a sewage treatment plant in a UVic parking lot.
But according to said expert's webpage (http://www.geog.uvic.ca/dept2/faculty/newcomb/newcomb.html), he's a senior lab instructor and course advisor. It seems inaccurate to call him a professor.
Furthermore, in doing an article on the topic, it implies that this guy is an expert on the topic, even if he is not a professor. But looking at Newcombe's publication list, it doesn't look like he has done any peer-reviewed research on sewage treatment.
If Newcombe is not a professor, does that still make this newsworthy? I'm sceptical.
That being said, if an idea is crazy enough it can sometimes make for a fun story: http://www.martlet.ca/view.php?aid=39669
Maybe they can put the bunny on top of the sewage treatment plant in the McKinnon parking lot.
David Sept. 16, 2009, 11:59 p.m.
Paul and Alvin raise an important flag. The whole basis for the article is that someone of prominence — a professor specifically — says it's a good idea to put a sewage treatment plant in a UVic parking lot.
But according to said expert's webpage (http://www.geog.uvic.ca/dept2/faculty/newcomb/newcomb.html), he's a senior lab instructor and course advisor. It seems inaccurate to call him a professor.
Furthermore, in doing an article on the topic, it implies that this guy is an expert on the topic, even if he is not a professor. But looking at Newcombe's publication list, it doesn't look like he has done any peer-reviewed research on sewage treatment.
If Newcombe is not a professor, does that still make this newsworthy? I'm sceptical.
That being said, if an idea is crazy enough it can sometimes make for a fun story: http://www.martlet.ca/view.php?aid=39669
Maybe they can put the bunny on top of the sewage treatment plant in the McKinnon parking lot.
Tracy McCornish Sept. 17, 2009, 9:11 p.m.
I think the Martlet should change the title of this article. It's very misleading, considering that Newcomb isn't a Professor.
Tracy McCornish Sept. 17, 2009, 9:11 p.m.
I think the Martlet should change the title of this article. It's very misleading, considering that Newcomb isn't a Professor.
John Newcomb Sept. 17, 2009, 10:51 p.m.
Martlet writer Sean is quite correct about my position on sewage treatment - I'm against it, but if we're forced into doing it, why clear-cut Haro Woods?? MacKinnon Gym is a great location for a resource recovery sewage plant.
Where are the academic studies that say Victoria NEEDS additional sewage treatment? Nope - don't exist. Just the Mr. Floatie character and some consultants who sold a non-peer-reviewed report to the Campbell government (MacDonald and Smorong), and another group who didn't actually recommend additional sewage treatment (but everybody thought they did - SETAC).
However, several actual UVic OCEANOGRAPHY professors co-signed a major ANTI-sewage treatment editorial in refereed academic journal The Marine Pollution Bulletin. See
Sewage Treatment Wastedat the foot of my UVic Sewage Plant webpage: http://sites.google.com/site/uvicsewageplant/TTFN! Yours in sewage, www.rstv.ca John
John Newcomb Sept. 17, 2009, 10:51 p.m.
Martlet writer Sean is quite correct about my position on sewage treatment - I'm against it, but if we're forced into doing it, why clear-cut Haro Woods?? MacKinnon Gym is a great location for a resource recovery sewage plant.
Where are the academic studies that say Victoria NEEDS additional sewage treatment? Nope - don't exist. Just the Mr. Floatie character and some consultants who sold a non-peer-reviewed report to the Campbell government (MacDonald and Smorong), and another group who didn't actually recommend additional sewage treatment (but everybody thought they did - SETAC).
However, several actual UVic OCEANOGRAPHY professors co-signed a major ANTI-sewage treatment editorial in refereed academic journal The Marine Pollution Bulletin. See
Sewage Treatment Wastedat the foot of my UVic Sewage Plant webpage: http://sites.google.com/site/uvicsewageplant/TTFN! Yours in sewage, www.rstv.ca John
Jon Sept. 17, 2009, 11:10 p.m.
Hey John,
There are tones of peer reviewed articles that you can find about how we need sewage treatment. Try looking it up on J-store sometime. It amazes me how ignorant people like you can be sometimes. In the name of the environment, all you do is harm. Why do you think every other city in Canada AND the United States has sewage treatment? Its not because they like wasting money.
Look it up on J-Store, I promise you will find lots of pro sewage treatment articles, and not a single one speaking against it. NOT A SINGLE ONE!
Jon Sept. 17, 2009, 11:10 p.m.
Hey John,
There are tones of peer reviewed articles that you can find about how we need sewage treatment. Try looking it up on J-store sometime. It amazes me how ignorant people like you can be sometimes. In the name of the environment, all you do is harm. Why do you think every other city in Canada AND the United States has sewage treatment? Its not because they like wasting money.
Look it up on J-Store, I promise you will find lots of pro sewage treatment articles, and not a single one speaking against it. NOT A SINGLE ONE!
John Newcomb Sept. 18, 2009, 12:21 a.m.
Thanks Jon, please post couple of citations for those academic, pro-sewage treatment plant in Victoria articles?
Meantime, how about an analysis and critique of the Sewage Treatment Wasted article, the link for which I've posted above? Where are the weaknesses in that article?
How did all those UVic oceanography profs get bamboozled into co-signing something like that, because I certainly didn't put them up to it ;-) Who knows, maybe their resistance to the pro-sewage steamroller by the Campbell and Harper governments might be influencing UVic administration to say that it takes NO position on sewage treatment. Hmmm...ya would think that an eco-campus would be gangbusters on sewage treatment, eh?
Thanks for your interest in the topic! Hopefully, we can grow a resource recovery sewage plant on MacKinnon Gym parking lot REAL soon! Send your supportive emails to: http://www.wastewatermadeclear.ca/contact/form.aspx?id=wastewatersite
For the facts: Responsible Sewage Treatment Victoria: http://www.rstv.ca
UVic Sewage Plant! http://sites.google.com/site/uvicsewageplant/
John jnewcomb@uvic.ca
John Newcomb Sept. 18, 2009, 12:21 a.m.
Thanks Jon, please post couple of citations for those academic, pro-sewage treatment plant in Victoria articles?
Meantime, how about an analysis and critique of the Sewage Treatment Wasted article, the link for which I've posted above? Where are the weaknesses in that article?
How did all those UVic oceanography profs get bamboozled into co-signing something like that, because I certainly didn't put them up to it ;-) Who knows, maybe their resistance to the pro-sewage steamroller by the Campbell and Harper governments might be influencing UVic administration to say that it takes NO position on sewage treatment. Hmmm...ya would think that an eco-campus would be gangbusters on sewage treatment, eh?
Thanks for your interest in the topic! Hopefully, we can grow a resource recovery sewage plant on MacKinnon Gym parking lot REAL soon! Send your supportive emails to: http://www.wastewatermadeclear.ca/contact/form.aspx?id=wastewatersite
For the facts: Responsible Sewage Treatment Victoria: http://www.rstv.ca
UVic Sewage Plant! http://sites.google.com/site/uvicsewageplant/
John jnewcomb@uvic.ca
Jon Sept. 18, 2009, 5:12 a.m.
Hey John, Your a
professorI am sure you know how to use J-Store, look up the dozens of articles about how sewage treatment is needed that are in peer reviewed journals on your own. There are lots of them. You know about how toxic all the sea life around the outfalls is.I am not a scientist. End of story. I am not going to critique a paper about something I am not an expert on, and I am definitely not going to waste my time with an article that couldn't even get itself into a peer reviewed journal.
Facts are facts John, and I don't see a single peer reviewed journal article that is anti-sewage treatment. I don't care about anything else. Lots of people sign lots of things, it doesn't change the above point. And don't try to turn sewage into a left vs right thing, that's just ridiculous.
Yeah, that's exactly what UVic needs, a smelly sewage treatment plant with trucks coming and going all day taking away the sludge, instead of things for students...
Jon Sept. 18, 2009, 5:12 a.m.
Hey John, Your a
professorI am sure you know how to use J-Store, look up the dozens of articles about how sewage treatment is needed that are in peer reviewed journals on your own. There are lots of them. You know about how toxic all the sea life around the outfalls is.I am not a scientist. End of story. I am not going to critique a paper about something I am not an expert on, and I am definitely not going to waste my time with an article that couldn't even get itself into a peer reviewed journal.
Facts are facts John, and I don't see a single peer reviewed journal article that is anti-sewage treatment. I don't care about anything else. Lots of people sign lots of things, it doesn't change the above point. And don't try to turn sewage into a left vs right thing, that's just ridiculous.
Yeah, that's exactly what UVic needs, a smelly sewage treatment plant with trucks coming and going all day taking away the sludge, instead of things for students...
John Newcomb Sept. 18, 2009, 10:48 p.m.
Can't find those pro-sewage-treatment-in-Victoria academic articles, eh?
Even if you support the need for additional sewage treatment in Victoria, it makes sense to reduce the environmental impact of such plants by supporting a resource recovery sewage plant on MacKinnon Gym parking lot.
Much of the 2 hectares of a sewage plant footprint is actually on old buildings and decommissioned tennis court. But its mostly
brown-fieldand could be the ideal location for a plant.No odors in modern sewage plants, and you'll be more creating a more sustainable campus, reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and allow space for campus agriculture on our green fields.
For the facts:
UVic Sewage Plant: http://sites.google.com/site/uvicsewageplant/
Responsible Sewage Treatment Victoria: http://www.rstv.ca
John Newcomb Sept. 18, 2009, 10:48 p.m.
Can't find those pro-sewage-treatment-in-Victoria academic articles, eh?
Even if you support the need for additional sewage treatment in Victoria, it makes sense to reduce the environmental impact of such plants by supporting a resource recovery sewage plant on MacKinnon Gym parking lot.
Much of the 2 hectares of a sewage plant footprint is actually on old buildings and decommissioned tennis court. But its mostly
brown-fieldand could be the ideal location for a plant.No odors in modern sewage plants, and you'll be more creating a more sustainable campus, reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and allow space for campus agriculture on our green fields.
For the facts:
UVic Sewage Plant: http://sites.google.com/site/uvicsewageplant/
Responsible Sewage Treatment Victoria: http://www.rstv.ca
David Sept. 19, 2009, 11:51 a.m.
Man stop bickering about peoples' ability to look up articles. Anyone who is interested can look stuff up for themselves on Google and Google Scholar.
I was interested, so I looked it up, and I found two main papers, one for and one against sewage treatment in Greater Victoria:
An article in Water Science and Technology found that
Overall the impact of the [Greater Victoria sewage] outfalls on the seafloor was found to be minimal and restricted in extent.(see http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1573470)A master's thesis by a Royal Roads Student found that
the Macaulay Point outfall is probably responsible for the majority of sediment contamination in Victoria Bight.It's not a in a peer-reviewed journal, but technically it's peer reviewed since her three supervisors approved it. (see http://www.georgiastrait.org/files/MarkovicThesis.pdf)A search for scientific papers on dumping sewage into the ocean more generally (as opposed to specifically in Greater Victoria) seems to turn up lots of papers that highlight the harm done by sewage and not too many to the contrary.
David Sept. 19, 2009, 11:51 a.m.
Man stop bickering about peoples' ability to look up articles. Anyone who is interested can look stuff up for themselves on Google and Google Scholar.
I was interested, so I looked it up, and I found two main papers, one for and one against sewage treatment in Greater Victoria:
An article in Water Science and Technology found that
Overall the impact of the [Greater Victoria sewage] outfalls on the seafloor was found to be minimal and restricted in extent.(see http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1573470)A master's thesis by a Royal Roads Student found that
the Macaulay Point outfall is probably responsible for the majority of sediment contamination in Victoria Bight.It's not a in a peer-reviewed journal, but technically it's peer reviewed since her three supervisors approved it. (see http://www.georgiastrait.org/files/MarkovicThesis.pdf)A search for scientific papers on dumping sewage into the ocean more generally (as opposed to specifically in Greater Victoria) seems to turn up lots of papers that highlight the harm done by sewage and not too many to the contrary.
Robert Sept. 19, 2009, 9:22 p.m.
A search for scientific papers on dumping sewage into the ocean more generally (as opposed to specifically in Greater Victoria) seems to turn up lots of papers that highlight the harm done by sewage and not too many to the contrary.I believe that John has repeated quite often that it is Victoria's unique location and marine conditions that mean we do not need a Sewage Treatment plant. That would make papers on other locations rather irrelevant.
Petter, what does farming have to do with any of this?
Robert Sept. 19, 2009, 9:22 p.m.
A search for scientific papers on dumping sewage into the ocean more generally (as opposed to specifically in Greater Victoria) seems to turn up lots of papers that highlight the harm done by sewage and not too many to the contrary.I believe that John has repeated quite often that it is Victoria's unique location and marine conditions that mean we do not need a Sewage Treatment plant. That would make papers on other locations rather irrelevant.
Petter, what does farming have to do with any of this?
Petter Sept. 19, 2009, 11:58 p.m.
Read the article, and comments. John wants to turn some or all of the green space on campus, such as the athletics fields into small farms. Its true. I thought it was a joke as well.
Petter Sept. 19, 2009, 11:58 p.m.
Read the article, and comments. John wants to turn some or all of the green space on campus, such as the athletics fields into small farms. Its true. I thought it was a joke as well.
Editor Sept. 20, 2009, 5:57 p.m.
Some comments have been removed because they violated the Martlet's commenting policies. Please remember comments are meant to encourage discussion, not to be insulting.
Editor Sept. 20, 2009, 5:57 p.m.
Some comments have been removed because they violated the Martlet's commenting policies. Please remember comments are meant to encourage discussion, not to be insulting.
Hey Editor! Sept. 20, 2009, 11:05 p.m.
You should EDIT the headline of this article, John Newcomb isn't a prof at UVic, or anywhere!
Hey Editor! Sept. 20, 2009, 11:05 p.m.
You should EDIT the headline of this article, John Newcomb isn't a prof at UVic, or anywhere!
John Newcomb Sept. 20, 2009, 11:39 p.m.
Markovic's thesis? Not double-blind peer reviewed, not in JSTOR/Google Scholar, no journal articles from it, and not cited by pro-sewage treatment activists, such as Georgia Strait Alliance/Sierra Legal Defense: http://www.georgiastrait.org/files/SETAC_sub_GSA_SL.pdf
or SETAC report: http://www.crd.bc.ca/wastewater/reviewpanel.htm
No athletic fields are proposed for future campus agriculture. Idea is to avoid building sewage plant on non-athletic fields such as McCoy Rd field and Cedar Hill Corner field. Campus urban agriculture a great idea - join the facebook group!
Whether or not you're in favour of sewage treatment, why not try to reduce the environmental impact of those sewage plants by siting them on areas where they may do less damage (parking lot!), and with resource recovery?
Check out the latest CRD update report on the issue - lots on resource recovery issues: http://www.crd.bc.ca/reports/corearealiquidwastem_/2009_/09september23_/index.htm
John Newcomb Sept. 20, 2009, 11:39 p.m.
Markovic's thesis? Not double-blind peer reviewed, not in JSTOR/Google Scholar, no journal articles from it, and not cited by pro-sewage treatment activists, such as Georgia Strait Alliance/Sierra Legal Defense: http://www.georgiastrait.org/files/SETAC_sub_GSA_SL.pdf
or SETAC report: http://www.crd.bc.ca/wastewater/reviewpanel.htm
No athletic fields are proposed for future campus agriculture. Idea is to avoid building sewage plant on non-athletic fields such as McCoy Rd field and Cedar Hill Corner field. Campus urban agriculture a great idea - join the facebook group!
Whether or not you're in favour of sewage treatment, why not try to reduce the environmental impact of those sewage plants by siting them on areas where they may do less damage (parking lot!), and with resource recovery?
Check out the latest CRD update report on the issue - lots on resource recovery issues: http://www.crd.bc.ca/reports/corearealiquidwastem_/2009_/09september23_/index.htm
John Newcomb Sept. 20, 2009, 11:53 p.m.
BREAKING NEWS FROM FACEBOOK GROUP
SAVE HARO WOODS:Deborah Dickson (Vancouver, BC) wrote 6 hours ago:
Attention friends of Haro Woods! There has been lots going on over the the summer.
Watch for a new website introducing a new action group that has been formed by residents from various areas of the CRD.
SOS Sensible On Sewage is comprised of residents/taxpayers who are opposed to taxation without representation and angered over the flawed public consultation process.
SOS is a proactive group dedicated to raising community awareness regarding the huge tax increases that will be implemented as early as next year. The website will provide an environment that will inform as well as provide chat rooms to discuss all aspects involved - Social, Environmental, Economical and Political.
The website will reflect articles that will clearly inform the reader about the bottom line - the money - and identify who is paying for the project currently proposed by the CRD and the Core Area Liquid Waste Management Committee.
The first meeting of Sensible On Sewage will be held on Tuesday, October 6th, starting at 7 pm - at the Cadboro Bay United Church - 2625 Arbutus Road.
You are invited to join the many other residents who are not satisfied with the decisions being made on your behalf.
As an example, many residents are not aware that approx. $22 million has been spent on the planning aspects of this mega project. The CRD only received $10 Million from the government for the planning. Who has authorized the balance? $12 Million dollars is a pretty big number given the recessionary times. Did you give permission for your tax dollars to be spent paying for advertising campaigns and unnecessary studies. I didn't.
There is a window of opportunity that has been presented. I hope you will join the group on the 6th.
If you have any questions contact Deborah at 250.477.0525 or at sensibleonsewage@gmail.com.
You are invited to stop by and sign a petition or pick up a petition to circulate in your neighbourhood on Monday, September 21st from 11 to Noon and 5 to 6. A table will be set up beside The Shieling (next to Starbucks) in Cadboro Bay Village.
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=46223292727&topic=10975
John Newcomb Sept. 20, 2009, 11:53 p.m.
BREAKING NEWS FROM FACEBOOK GROUP
SAVE HARO WOODS:Deborah Dickson (Vancouver, BC) wrote 6 hours ago:
Attention friends of Haro Woods! There has been lots going on over the the summer.
Watch for a new website introducing a new action group that has been formed by residents from various areas of the CRD.
SOS Sensible On Sewage is comprised of residents/taxpayers who are opposed to taxation without representation and angered over the flawed public consultation process.
SOS is a proactive group dedicated to raising community awareness regarding the huge tax increases that will be implemented as early as next year. The website will provide an environment that will inform as well as provide chat rooms to discuss all aspects involved - Social, Environmental, Economical and Political.
The website will reflect articles that will clearly inform the reader about the bottom line - the money - and identify who is paying for the project currently proposed by the CRD and the Core Area Liquid Waste Management Committee.
The first meeting of Sensible On Sewage will be held on Tuesday, October 6th, starting at 7 pm - at the Cadboro Bay United Church - 2625 Arbutus Road.
You are invited to join the many other residents who are not satisfied with the decisions being made on your behalf.
As an example, many residents are not aware that approx. $22 million has been spent on the planning aspects of this mega project. The CRD only received $10 Million from the government for the planning. Who has authorized the balance? $12 Million dollars is a pretty big number given the recessionary times. Did you give permission for your tax dollars to be spent paying for advertising campaigns and unnecessary studies. I didn't.
There is a window of opportunity that has been presented. I hope you will join the group on the 6th.
If you have any questions contact Deborah at 250.477.0525 or at sensibleonsewage@gmail.com.
You are invited to stop by and sign a petition or pick up a petition to circulate in your neighbourhood on Monday, September 21st from 11 to Noon and 5 to 6. A table will be set up beside The Shieling (next to Starbucks) in Cadboro Bay Village.
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=46223292727&topic=10975
David Sept. 21, 2009, 2:32 p.m.
Hi John,
Please double-check your facts before you post things. While you appear to be correct that Markovic's thesis isn't
double-blindpeer reviewed and hasn't resulted in any journal articles (which is probably not unusual for a master's level thesis), you're wrong on a number of accounts:It is in fact listed on Google Scholar (see http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&q=markovic+sewage+treatment&btnG=Search)
It is in fact referenced by pro-sewage treatment activists such as the George Straight Alliance (see http://www.georgiastrait.org/?q=node/319 under Research and Reports)
David Sept. 21, 2009, 2:32 p.m.
Hi John,
Please double-check your facts before you post things. While you appear to be correct that Markovic's thesis isn't
double-blindpeer reviewed and hasn't resulted in any journal articles (which is probably not unusual for a master's level thesis), you're wrong on a number of accounts:It is in fact listed on Google Scholar (see http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&q=markovic+sewage+treatment&btnG=Search)
It is in fact referenced by pro-sewage treatment activists such as the George Straight Alliance (see http://www.georgiastrait.org/?q=node/319 under Research and Reports)
John Newcomb Sept. 21, 2009, 9:12 p.m.
David: Good work! I did do a search on google scholar but you caught their listing of Markovic on GEORGIA STRAIGHT! Hehehe... a Vancouver street paper known for their reviews of rock bands. I really missed that one big time ;-)
So folks - here is the bottom line: If you really LOVE more land-based sewage treatment coming to Victoria, how much of our landscape and environment are you willing to damage to get it??
If like me, you DONT want additional, unnecessary sewage treatment, do you continue to stick your head in the sand and deny that the political idiots are forcing it on us - or do you seek the least-damaging options?? Sure - keep fighting this stupidity, but at the end of the day, you need to assess whats going to happen here if you don't get involved.
Up to you! I'm old enough that I'll probably be retired and out of here before the chickens come home to roost. However, for you young'uns, you have a life to regret the expedient political decisions now being made by the Harper, Campbell and our regional governments.
Enjoy the view! JOHN http://www.rstv.ca http://sites.google.com/site/uvicsewageplant/
John Newcomb Sept. 21, 2009, 9:12 p.m.
David: Good work! I did do a search on google scholar but you caught their listing of Markovic on GEORGIA STRAIGHT! Hehehe... a Vancouver street paper known for their reviews of rock bands. I really missed that one big time ;-)
So folks - here is the bottom line: If you really LOVE more land-based sewage treatment coming to Victoria, how much of our landscape and environment are you willing to damage to get it??
If like me, you DONT want additional, unnecessary sewage treatment, do you continue to stick your head in the sand and deny that the political idiots are forcing it on us - or do you seek the least-damaging options?? Sure - keep fighting this stupidity, but at the end of the day, you need to assess whats going to happen here if you don't get involved.
Up to you! I'm old enough that I'll probably be retired and out of here before the chickens come home to roost. However, for you young'uns, you have a life to regret the expedient political decisions now being made by the Harper, Campbell and our regional governments.
Enjoy the view! JOHN http://www.rstv.ca http://sites.google.com/site/uvicsewageplant/
Triple Bottom Line May 9, 2010, midnight
Energy has become one of the most significant concerns in the 21st century. The need for energy has continued to increase and it has become difficult to meet this demand. Coal is poised to be one of the most important sources of energy but it is facing the challenge of environmental impact. To ensure that coal becomes an important source of energy in the world, it is important to put in place a framework for sustainable coal mining. The government should play bigger roles in regulation of coal mining and ensure environmental impact assessment is carried out first. The government should shut down mines if they continuously ignore the law. Fines are not sufficient deterrents for coal mines to supply with safety standards and protect the people and the planet. For more information visit http://www.triplebottomlineapproach.com and http://www.democracyandconflict.com
Triple Bottom Line May 9, 2010, midnight
Energy has become one of the most significant concerns in the 21st century. The need for energy has continued to increase and it has become difficult to meet this demand. Coal is poised to be one of the most important sources of energy but it is facing the challenge of environmental impact. To ensure that coal becomes an important source of energy in the world, it is important to put in place a framework for sustainable coal mining. The government should play bigger roles in regulation of coal mining and ensure environmental impact assessment is carried out first. The government should shut down mines if they continuously ignore the law. Fines are not sufficient deterrents for coal mines to supply with safety standards and protect the people and the planet. For more information visit http://www.triplebottomlineapproach.com and http://www.democracyandconflict.com