When gender is more than just a day at the local pool
Life in Canada isn’t a game of euchre. My rights don’t trump his and hers, and the other guy’s don’t trump mine. But when the cards start getting mixed up and confused, exceptions get made and someone in power inevitably pulls out the trump card.
I was lifeguarding at my pool the other day, when I heard quick gasps puncture the scene in the women’s locker room. Then came alarmed whispers, and giggles.
Flustered mothers shuffled past, covering little eyes as if the sight would shatter their world. Someone grabbed me by the wrist, incensed, demanding
attention.
They wondered if I could kindly ask “the testosterone in the women’s bathing suit” to exit the women’s shower room — “for the sake of the children.”
What’s the problem here — propriety, rudeness, indecency? No.
Those people want a friend of mine, who happens to be a man identifying as a woman, to leave the shower room, while my friend is trying to finish showering.
Think about it. The real problem is so much deeper.
We don’t have third-gender or gender-neutral washrooms and we haven’t used our education system to instil tolerance in our community — or even awareness.
Bet you didn’t know that an aboriginal term for transgender is “two spirited.” Or, that about one in 10 Canadian hate crimes are motivated by sexual orientation. Or, that between January and October 2009, 95 suspicious deaths were reported to have been spurred by transgender-hate.
It’s not your fault if you didn’t know. This information isn’t publicized; it isn’t even discussed, except for one day a year: Nov. 20.
Nov. 20 is the international day of remembering transgendered people who have died of hate crimes.
Victoria is honouring this occasion from 5 to 6:30 p.m. in Fernwood Square this year, and you’re invited.
Back at the pool, a public facility, both parties have a right to use the locker room. How can we come to an amicable resolution without playing trump?
In one Thai secondary school, the solution is a half man, half woman stick figure.
This symbol represents third-gender washrooms which were designed to recognize the 10 per cent of the population that identifies as such.
Even though, in Canada, we have no concrete statistics about the people who openly identify as third gender, washrooms might still be the way to go.
We know this is a rapidly-growing population — one destined to impact our communal future. We’ve got to take action. Tolerance has to start with awareness, and respect must follow suit. It’s not a game of euchre, remember? Your rights should end where mine begin.
So what will you do on Nov. 20 to recognize those whose lives have been trumped by prejudicial doctrines?
Hopefully you’ll begin thinking about what steps you could take today to enable equanimity tomorrow.
38 Comments
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B Nov. 20, 2009, 3:49 p.m.
Just because I
identifyas a porcupine doesn't make me a porcupine. I may truly believe to the core of my soul that I really am one, but that doesn't make it so.B Nov. 20, 2009, 3:49 p.m.
Just because I
identifyas a porcupine doesn't make me a porcupine. I may truly believe to the core of my soul that I really am one, but that doesn't make it so.A Nov. 26, 2009, 6:45 p.m.
We must respect the privacy and rights of the majority. The woman in the changeroom have a right to not feel uncomfortable. If you think we should allow transgendered people with male bits use the womans changeroom, then that would undermine the whole purpose of seperating change rooms in the first place.
A Nov. 26, 2009, 6:45 p.m.
We must respect the privacy and rights of the majority. The woman in the changeroom have a right to not feel uncomfortable. If you think we should allow transgendered people with male bits use the womans changeroom, then that would undermine the whole purpose of seperating change rooms in the first place.
Lara Nov. 27, 2009, 12:45 a.m.
B, Your comments demonstrate ignorance. Trans issues and discrimination are just beginning to be acknowledged just as gay rights were before them, and black's rights before them, and women's rights before them. It's a shame we can't seem to learn the drill.
Trans issues present special problems in contemporary society. I do not suggest that I have an answer to these complex identity issues when it comes to public facilities, but I know hate messages and refusing to recognize people's chosen genders is not the answer.
Lara Nov. 27, 2009, 12:45 a.m.
B, Your comments demonstrate ignorance. Trans issues and discrimination are just beginning to be acknowledged just as gay rights were before them, and black's rights before them, and women's rights before them. It's a shame we can't seem to learn the drill.
Trans issues present special problems in contemporary society. I do not suggest that I have an answer to these complex identity issues when it comes to public facilities, but I know hate messages and refusing to recognize people's chosen genders is not the answer.
Bahram Farzady Nov. 28, 2009, 1:57 a.m.
It seems like a third change room would be both impractical and demeaning in a certain way. And SHE isn't a hermaphrodite or a pre-op transsexual (I presume). SHE's really not between sexes, but a woman (gender-wise). She's only biologically male. And just as an adopted child still calls their foster parents their parents I see no reason why we would call your friend a man.
How about one room with shower stalls and change stalls? It seems like 12 year-olds in Europe are less giggly about seeing a little bit of knob or fanny than 35 year old Canadians.
We don't have separate classrooms for men and women, why do we need separate change rooms?
Bahram Farzady Nov. 28, 2009, 1:57 a.m.
It seems like a third change room would be both impractical and demeaning in a certain way. And SHE isn't a hermaphrodite or a pre-op transsexual (I presume). SHE's really not between sexes, but a woman (gender-wise). She's only biologically male. And just as an adopted child still calls their foster parents their parents I see no reason why we would call your friend a man.
How about one room with shower stalls and change stalls? It seems like 12 year-olds in Europe are less giggly about seeing a little bit of knob or fanny than 35 year old Canadians.
We don't have separate classrooms for men and women, why do we need separate change rooms?
B Nov. 28, 2009, 5:09 a.m.
It's got nothing to do with ignorance Lara. Reality isn't merely what I say (or believe) it to be. Reality is what it is. If I jump and down and insist I'm a porcupine and you tell me I'm not, are you being ignorant? If you say
aww what a nice porcupineare you pandering? One doesn't choose one's gender any more than one chooses to be a human being. Biology takes care of that.If you ask me, this is a clear case of political correctness - and the fear of ever offending anyone - gone out of control.
B Nov. 28, 2009, 5:09 a.m.
It's got nothing to do with ignorance Lara. Reality isn't merely what I say (or believe) it to be. Reality is what it is. If I jump and down and insist I'm a porcupine and you tell me I'm not, are you being ignorant? If you say
aww what a nice porcupineare you pandering? One doesn't choose one's gender any more than one chooses to be a human being. Biology takes care of that.If you ask me, this is a clear case of political correctness - and the fear of ever offending anyone - gone out of control.
Bahram Farzady Nov. 28, 2009, 2:31 p.m.
You've actually confused gender with sex B. Sex is biological, and just like most other biological things, even a person's sex can be changed, but gender is not based on sex. You're conflating two different things.
Bahram Farzady Nov. 28, 2009, 2:31 p.m.
You've actually confused gender with sex B. Sex is biological, and just like most other biological things, even a person's sex can be changed, but gender is not based on sex. You're conflating two different things.
B Nov. 28, 2009, 4:49 p.m.
No I'm not confusing things at all. What you call
genderis just some sort of social construct which facilitates the idea that we can identify ourselves however we want to. In real-world terms, it has no meaning. SayingI identify as a womanhas as much meaning asI identify as a muppet. You are what you are, not what you perceive yourself to be. If I went around demanding people recognize me as a marsupial, people would deem me insane.B Nov. 28, 2009, 4:49 p.m.
No I'm not confusing things at all. What you call
genderis just some sort of social construct which facilitates the idea that we can identify ourselves however we want to. In real-world terms, it has no meaning. SayingI identify as a womanhas as much meaning asI identify as a muppet. You are what you are, not what you perceive yourself to be. If I went around demanding people recognize me as a marsupial, people would deem me insane.Bahram Farzady Nov. 28, 2009, 8:11 p.m.
If gender is a social construct than it would be senseless to say that it cannot be differently constructed through a person's life.
However, you seem to deny that it is, so, although you don't make it explicit, your claim must be that gender=sex. Leaving aside hermaphrodites and other rather indefinable cases if we adopt your definition of gender, this proposition may be true.
What you need to do to convince us it is, is provide a better analogy than person/marsupial, because certainly the difference between man/woman is not really analogous to that between two different species of animal.
Bahram Farzady Nov. 28, 2009, 8:11 p.m.
If gender is a social construct than it would be senseless to say that it cannot be differently constructed through a person's life.
However, you seem to deny that it is, so, although you don't make it explicit, your claim must be that gender=sex. Leaving aside hermaphrodites and other rather indefinable cases if we adopt your definition of gender, this proposition may be true.
What you need to do to convince us it is, is provide a better analogy than person/marsupial, because certainly the difference between man/woman is not really analogous to that between two different species of animal.
B Nov. 29, 2009, 2:44 a.m.
Gender, as you want to define it, can be constructed however you wish. What I'm saying is that this construction is ultimately meaningless except to the person doing the constructing. I can
constructmyself as a fish. I can even - if I found a doctor willing to do so - have operations to make my biological functions more fish-like. I can demand that people identify me as such. Those that wish tosupportme might well do so. But none of that really means anything. It's merely a definition I've slapped on myself.The bottom line is this: we can't define ourselves. We are what we are independent of any internal definition.
B Nov. 29, 2009, 2:44 a.m.
Gender, as you want to define it, can be constructed however you wish. What I'm saying is that this construction is ultimately meaningless except to the person doing the constructing. I can
constructmyself as a fish. I can even - if I found a doctor willing to do so - have operations to make my biological functions more fish-like. I can demand that people identify me as such. Those that wish tosupportme might well do so. But none of that really means anything. It's merely a definition I've slapped on myself.The bottom line is this: we can't define ourselves. We are what we are independent of any internal definition.
Bahram Farzady Nov. 29, 2009, 4:47 p.m.
So, if you train to become a firefighter and are hired as a fire fighter, you still can't define yourself as a firefighter?
If you're somehow turned into a fish, presumably you are a fish. I don't think you have to ask to be called a fish after that surgery. You'll be swimming the the ocean.
You seem to disagree with this
defining yourselfmaxim only when it would increase the tolerance you'd have to show to a minority group. Odd position to take.Also, as I've said before, gender isn't about biology; sex is. Sex can, literally be changed. If I cut my knob off and stick a minge in place of it take estrogen, etc... I won't have to ask to be called a women, I will be one.
The thing about gender is that if someone acts like a women, etc... Why are you so stubborn to have to call them a man?
Bahram Farzady Nov. 29, 2009, 4:47 p.m.
So, if you train to become a firefighter and are hired as a fire fighter, you still can't define yourself as a firefighter?
If you're somehow turned into a fish, presumably you are a fish. I don't think you have to ask to be called a fish after that surgery. You'll be swimming the the ocean.
You seem to disagree with this
defining yourselfmaxim only when it would increase the tolerance you'd have to show to a minority group. Odd position to take.Also, as I've said before, gender isn't about biology; sex is. Sex can, literally be changed. If I cut my knob off and stick a minge in place of it take estrogen, etc... I won't have to ask to be called a women, I will be one.
The thing about gender is that if someone acts like a women, etc... Why are you so stubborn to have to call them a man?
B Nov. 30, 2009, 2:46 a.m.
It doesn't matter what you define yourself as - you are what you are. If that weren't true - using your example - I could define myself as a firefighter even though I am not one.
I do not disagree with this
defining yourselfmaxim only when it would increase tolerance I'd have to show to a minority group -- I disagree with it absolutely.Sex cannot be changed - not really. Outward appearances can be altered, as you've demonstrated. However that doesn't change one's genetic makeup. The DNA remains the same. You can't stick wings on a dog and call it a bird.
B Nov. 30, 2009, 2:46 a.m.
It doesn't matter what you define yourself as - you are what you are. If that weren't true - using your example - I could define myself as a firefighter even though I am not one.
I do not disagree with this
defining yourselfmaxim only when it would increase tolerance I'd have to show to a minority group -- I disagree with it absolutely.Sex cannot be changed - not really. Outward appearances can be altered, as you've demonstrated. However that doesn't change one's genetic makeup. The DNA remains the same. You can't stick wings on a dog and call it a bird.
Bahram Farzady Nov. 30, 2009, 3:45 p.m.
Sex can be changed. Go to your local plastic surgeon for proof of that. I don't know about DNA (and I don't know why that's so important to you), but genitals, hormones, etc... can be changed from man to women and women to man.
If you call yourself a firefighter I'd say train to become one and I'll call you a firefighter too. Same goes for the gender change or sex change. If you start dressing and acting like a women (whatever that means) I'll call you a woman (gender-wise). If you change your sex through surgery, I'll call you a women (sex-wise).
How is this controversial? It seems pretty straight-forward.
Bahram Farzady Nov. 30, 2009, 3:45 p.m.
Sex can be changed. Go to your local plastic surgeon for proof of that. I don't know about DNA (and I don't know why that's so important to you), but genitals, hormones, etc... can be changed from man to women and women to man.
If you call yourself a firefighter I'd say train to become one and I'll call you a firefighter too. Same goes for the gender change or sex change. If you start dressing and acting like a women (whatever that means) I'll call you a woman (gender-wise). If you change your sex through surgery, I'll call you a women (sex-wise).
How is this controversial? It seems pretty straight-forward.
Bahram Farzady Nov. 30, 2009, 3:51 p.m.
What does
notreally`` mean? This distinction between changing your sex and REALLY changing your sex does not exist, but in your mind.If everyone knows you as a man, whether your DNA is that of a man or not, you are - for all intensive purposes - a man.
You ask
but are you REALLY a man?And my answer is that you're re-building a false distinction Plato made about 7 trillion years ago about reality vs. appearances. I want to get rid of this distinction. It is not useful.It looks like an apple, it smells like and apple and it tastes like an apple -- It's a fucking apple.
Bahram Farzady Nov. 30, 2009, 3:51 p.m.
What does
notreally`` mean? This distinction between changing your sex and REALLY changing your sex does not exist, but in your mind.If everyone knows you as a man, whether your DNA is that of a man or not, you are - for all intensive purposes - a man.
You ask
but are you REALLY a man?And my answer is that you're re-building a false distinction Plato made about 7 trillion years ago about reality vs. appearances. I want to get rid of this distinction. It is not useful.It looks like an apple, it smells like and apple and it tastes like an apple -- It's a fucking apple.
B Nov. 30, 2009, 3:58 p.m.
Calling someone a woman (or a firefighter or whatever) doesn't make them a woman or a firefighter or whatever. It's as simple as that. I'm not sure why that's such a difficult concept for you. You are what you are independant of what anybody may choose to call you.
As for changing sex, it's not possible to change your DNA through sex-change operations. Therefore ones' biological sex remains unchanged. All that changes is the external trappings of sex. As I said, putting wings on a dog doesn't make it a bird.
B Nov. 30, 2009, 3:58 p.m.
Calling someone a woman (or a firefighter or whatever) doesn't make them a woman or a firefighter or whatever. It's as simple as that. I'm not sure why that's such a difficult concept for you. You are what you are independant of what anybody may choose to call you.
As for changing sex, it's not possible to change your DNA through sex-change operations. Therefore ones' biological sex remains unchanged. All that changes is the external trappings of sex. As I said, putting wings on a dog doesn't make it a bird.
B Nov. 30, 2009, 4:06 p.m.
If everyone knows you as a man, whether your DNA is that of a man or not, you are - for all intensive purposes - a man.You're so far off the mark it's not funny. There was a famous case of a con man (portrayed by Leonardo diCaprio in the movie
Catch Me if You Can). He posed as - among other things - a chief resident pediatrician at a hospital for almost a year. Everyone recognized him as a doctor. That didn't make himfor all intensive purposesa doctor. If I put on a fireman's outfit for Hallowe'en and wander down the street and someone sees me and thinks I'm a fireman, it doesn't make me a fireman.It looks like an apple, it smells like and apple and it tastes like an apple -- It's a fucking apple.Unless it's a pear :)
Oh and by the way, for future reference the phrase is
for all intents and purposes.B Nov. 30, 2009, 4:06 p.m.
If everyone knows you as a man, whether your DNA is that of a man or not, you are - for all intensive purposes - a man.You're so far off the mark it's not funny. There was a famous case of a con man (portrayed by Leonardo diCaprio in the movie
Catch Me if You Can). He posed as - among other things - a chief resident pediatrician at a hospital for almost a year. Everyone recognized him as a doctor. That didn't make himfor all intensive purposesa doctor. If I put on a fireman's outfit for Hallowe'en and wander down the street and someone sees me and thinks I'm a fireman, it doesn't make me a fireman.It looks like an apple, it smells like and apple and it tastes like an apple -- It's a fucking apple.Unless it's a pear :)
Oh and by the way, for future reference the phrase is
for all intents and purposes.Bahram Farzady Nov. 30, 2009, 6 p.m.
Fair enough, but presumably being a women, is not a skill like being a doctor or fireman. If you identify with women, and you're not presumably you're not trying to con people for some odd reason, why are you still not a women?
Bahram Farzady Nov. 30, 2009, 6 p.m.
Fair enough, but presumably being a women, is not a skill like being a doctor or fireman. If you identify with women, and you're not presumably you're not trying to con people for some odd reason, why are you still not a women?
Bahram Farzady Nov. 30, 2009, 6:04 p.m.
The character in that movie was pretending to be something he knew he was not. This guy at the pool was not pretending. He genuinely identifies as a women. What's the problem?
Bahram Farzady Nov. 30, 2009, 6:04 p.m.
The character in that movie was pretending to be something he knew he was not. This guy at the pool was not pretending. He genuinely identifies as a women. What's the problem?
B Nov. 30, 2009, 7:53 p.m.
Fair enough, but presumably being a women, is not a skill like being a doctor or fireman. If you identify with women, and you're not presumably you're not trying to con people for some odd reason, why are you still not a women?For the simple reason that the state of being female is something with a very strict biological (genetic) definition. Namely, males have an XY chromosome and females an XX.
The character in that movie was pretending to be something he knew he was not. This guy at the pool was not pretending. He genuinely identifies as a women. What's the problem?Your original statement was
If everyone knows you as a man, you are a man.I was demonstrating - with a real-world example - how perception does not equal reality.B Nov. 30, 2009, 7:53 p.m.
Fair enough, but presumably being a women, is not a skill like being a doctor or fireman. If you identify with women, and you're not presumably you're not trying to con people for some odd reason, why are you still not a women?For the simple reason that the state of being female is something with a very strict biological (genetic) definition. Namely, males have an XY chromosome and females an XX.
The character in that movie was pretending to be something he knew he was not. This guy at the pool was not pretending. He genuinely identifies as a women. What's the problem?Your original statement was
If everyone knows you as a man, you are a man.I was demonstrating - with a real-world example - how perception does not equal reality.Bahram Farzady Nov. 30, 2009, 9:45 p.m.
I actually don't know much about biology, but if you were adopted would your foster parents having adopted you, raised you, etc... be your parents, despite not being your parents biologically?
Is your identity determined solely by your biology? Seems rather arbitrary.
Bahram Farzady Nov. 30, 2009, 9:45 p.m.
I actually don't know much about biology, but if you were adopted would your foster parents having adopted you, raised you, etc... be your parents, despite not being your parents biologically?
Is your identity determined solely by your biology? Seems rather arbitrary.